550: Interactive Content: 2 Real-World Examples That Drove Incredible Results w/ Aaron Dun

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Aaron Dun, Sr. VP of Marketing at SnapApp.

Looking for a guaranteed way to createcontent that resonates with your audience, start uponcast interview yourideal clients and let them choose the topic of the interview, because, ifyour ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good chance, the rest of youraudience will care about. It too, learn more at sweetfish media, dotcom, you're, listening to the B Tob groteshow pod cast dedicated to helping be to B executives and Che'd explosivegrown whener you're. Looking for techniques and strategies, tools andresources, you've come to the right place, I'm Jonathan Green and I'm JamesCarbary. Let's get it into the show all right. We are here today a the bt B Marketing Forumand I'm chatting with Aaron Don. He is the Senior Vice President of marketingat Snapap Aron, How r you doing today, I'm doing great joun, Fi ev, I'mustoked te Jat with you and we're talking off line about something that Iam very passionate about. This idea that we need to start creating a twoway: Conversation with our prospects. Instead of of the the marketingplaybook bet, you, and I would agree, is as aready dead and some would say:it's still dying, ecause you're still seeing a lot ofbrands use it, but this marketing playbook. That is just one way, pushyou sign up for or white paper or Ebook, and then we're just going to blast youri with phone calls and and emails until you buy my thing w and that's ow you- and I obviously bothagree that that that way of doing things is dead, talk to us about. Why?Why you think it's dead and what the alternative yea yeah yeah know. We'vebeen doing this al time and Beto be right. So we have this notion: th. Okay,I'm going to put up a wite paper, I'm going to put lead Gete in front of thatWhit Aper, I'm going to ask you for your name, your company name, yourcompany email. Only! Please, no person knows he IV, your first born child N.maybe the tie W of your role and then...

...that's a lead for sales. Yeah Right.I'm going no hand that, over in my cail se and they're, going to call andhammer away and email you e etcea until until you, as you said, want to buysomething. So we called that Indown d marketing yeah, and that was fine rigtthat worked very well for a long time, K O in incudo top spot for reallytransforming n. How we think about it and h he ou guys o the content.Morketing institute have done a great job sort of yeah. Tell A beter story:Yeah Rit an people were engaged with you. The problem is, is that everybodyjumped on this bandwagon and the amount and the volume of contents beingpublished has gotten to the point where t e basically become a commodity, very,very difficult to differentiate, based on your content along. So you know, I'mI'm a prospect for a company WHO's Y. U know enailing me and and pushing Osocontinent me, and then you know that that as's a competitive set right toastire R, six other companies who also think of a prospect for that sametarget. Secndyeh they're, also emailing me and calling B. Barding me withconsent, a d no by the way you know, maybe I'm a prospect for five or sixother different services or togalogy communities andjust gets very excedential very yeay, and I also think the other thing that'shappening here is: We did a lot of research that we just publishe a coupleof weeks ago and that really focuses in the rise of the minal generation. Okay,the one O eneration, which s has been seen as a Quh bt problem, is actually aB TB problem, but I actually think it's a be to be opportunity right. What wesaw from our research is that is that the mlina generation thinks verydifferently about how they want to engage with their with the people they wantto do businesswith and they're very clearly signaling that there's notion of just accessing awhite paper. The content may be interesting, but there's nothing aboutaccessing that white paper. That says: Hey, I'm actually lookgoing to buy Rodyeah and they don't want to like the sales, so we've mismatched theopportunity here. So we think- and we certainly seein a lot of forwardthinking. Companies are take this leap to move away from the legated whitepaper so that the central focal point...

...of the marketing tranegy moving to moreCCREING xexperiencs, two way engaging conversations to create a dialogue,idditial dialogue with prospects, then getting them to signal. Hey, I'm readyto talk to you. It's a shift from a a cellar, centric model where I'm tellingyou how you should buy to a Bier Centr, I'm telling you how I want to buy. Wehave paid l service, this notion of the buyers journey for ten years, yeah a nogood market or whatever tell you hey, o. It was a VI GTS, of course, but thenthey deliver all of their content, all theire stras on their trarn, a lot yeah.I T it doesn't work anymore e o going to work anymore and is time is now 's,jsort of called arms. So how do you I mean? I feel very strongly. You knowsomething I I say h with our team: Alot S, this idea of adding adding valuefirst, and I think the term value is weird, because that means differentthings to different people and where I think brands are aremessing up. Is they think? Oh well, our product is the value, and so we'regoing to lead with our value by explaining why our product is Suviv,but it's not perceived that way by the buyer. The buyer just sees oh you're,trying to jam content ith now my throat, so you can sell me your product t inunder the guise of like oh you're, sharing how valuable you're you'rethinking sore your competitors, but and so figuring out a way to add value toyour buyer, completely independent of your product, but just to get a seat atthe table to have a conversation about what it could look like too USUR AACTin the value that your product brings. But if you're not willing to do that,Pece Merse, which especially N B TB- I mean, if you're, if your deal sizes are thirty forty, fifty thousand dollarsit's worth, putting in a little actual effort to create the relationship byadding value upfront independent of your pacture service. You mentionedsome things before we hit record that I thought were really interesting aroundlike quizzes and like interactive types of content. That's intriguing to me towe're eating our own dog food. You know...

...by doing things like we interviewepeople for or PIE CASS, we interview people for having O Post Colunli we'reengaging with people that could potentially have US produce a podcastfor them by making them look like a rock star in our media. That's one wayto do it. Tell me about th, like some of the ways that people are leveragingsnap op doing that with noses n and these different types of interactivecontent yeah. The first thing it would say at you point about value, is thevalue equation has shifted an he bar is extremely high. Now it used to be last ten years if we produced theultimate guide- and I t that was a big thing. I meanheultimate guy and thei reebooks now they're, not wite papers, theyre very consuable, that was, thatwas the bar for value yeah. Okay, I have a problem. You've delivered me,the ultimate guy to solve that problem. Okay, cool that. I want to read thatMHM that doesn't work anymore. Now the value is as a prospect. I want to beable to engage with you to get something of value. On my trims, MHMRight. I may in fact download your White Paper Youbook and that's fine,but as has no connection to buying intent from our research, buyers arenot using white papers. EALLY early and they're buying a research crossesthey're, just not right, so we mismatched, you know our strategy there,so the Barfo value for delivering value is extremely high. Now and your job asa marketer is to understand your prospect so deeply that you can delivercontent and experiences that is going to resonate with them ht, and you dothat in such a way. A We talk about m. What does it experience lookes, like anexperience, crates value for both partiesit's a too way value of exchangesuch that you're, going to give me some information, and in return for thatinformation, I'm going to deliver you something but Valu en hat. Something ofvalue is no longer just the bite paper. So we have quite a few customers whoare who are creating an assessont e susand sick, many different flavors,but an insestment in his most basic form. Is You give me a number ofvariables and I will either benchmark...

...how you stack up against a a similar coort, or I would give yousome sort of preparingess assessentso. We have customer called Pacor out ofCincinnati, which is in the HR space, and the Department of Labor came outwith a rule change a proposal, change about how company's Catholic overtimehave a very profound effect on how companies actually paid their peopleyeah Ri. So they could have just put up a white paper. They said: Hey Buil, Omy guy to the coming rule, change in the department, a okay. They did thatCTA. It was very good. Thit was very good feeo contact, but w they did. Thatwas even more transformative, as they created an assessment that allowed youto assess the impact of that T. epartment of Labor rualchange on your busins, based on the context of your thatatand. I am now asthe prospect Interectin Pickor. I am giving pigor valuable insights about mybusiness right and when done right, they're able to use those insides to dotwo things, one score and nuture better yeah 'cause. I know you better, butthey can also figure out by asking sales level criteria they canunderstand. Who are the best prospects? I the we,we spent so much time or scoring etring base on activity and fermographicdemographic, but most companies that I've ever worked for with and talk to what makes a good prospect for acompany and what makes a good passment for company right now. It goes a leveldeeper than that. Like that sales, criteri t sales questions, the BDRSDRwhomever it is S. having that first call on prospect, they always askdthose iastic, seven, nine questions and that's the data that you want to getbecause that's allows you to focus on those leads and send those leads ofsales right now. If you don't deliver that content, itdoesn't matter how engaging in how how experiential that contint is if itisn't going to Resonat if it doesn't hit on the fears, the pains, theinterest, the the hopes, O dreams, etcetera, Ha prospects, it's you're, no,better offten! You L my paper yea and it's really understanding. Honestly,it's going to be a lot harder for marketers, because the Um, the bar somuch yeah y. to your to your point, I'm...

...almillenial, so I didn't e o a Jack y go to focal soccer tonight.It's okay, we're good, but I have I have an extremely high bar of what iswhat I consider to be valued. I love the example of the assessment. They built an assessment around a realtime thing of what happening in the industry and hey, come and see how thisis going to affect you. Not just you. One of you know thousandsof people bu your the number O employees. You have what part of thecountry you're INRI WH. I think a was even more interesting along thelines. Is that Um, the old way like a marketing Wonono for a like a betterphrase? Um, it would have been like T, have fifteen four field form down onthe wite paper. Where are we goin to get all information? Yep? Okay? Well,that doesn't work. We realize we ha short in our fields, our forms. So thenwe create progressor profile, which is like okay. Every time you come back tome, I'm going to ask you a different question: yea, that's really passive!It is requiring you the prospect to come back over and over and over andagain and probably never to actually get all that pacteriallybout, but bydelivering something of value and return, they are able to ask much morepersonal questions. Yeah Li they've, given permission Yep to ask thosequestions and the companies are doing. This really well are really connectingthat data into their marking autimation platform and they were transforming torscoring utury models. As a result, a honestly there's there's another thing:that's lingering here, which is in fact I believe, firmly that in the future are marketing our leagesto sales. Charts are no longer going to go up into the right actally and godown to the race, because, right now we ere sending over this undifferentr massof leads and beand asking the sales team to pick through and finding IOTthat's at scale in the kind of scale we have to deliver going forward. Youcan't do that. You can't Tenex what you're doing now and expect Tenex atthe bottom. Yeah like you can't do it.

You don't know how to do it. If you did,you would have already done Thas, so you have to get a lot smarter andfigure. How do you tend ex the best leads of the bod yeah and when and whenqualification is baged into the core of the content that you're delivering you're killing a two birds of thatbut?It has to be authentic and it has to be done because the prospect is gettingvalue, otherwise they won't do it. Yet. I so you're like wow, no one's evergoing to go through a nine or twelve question assessment process and filliedout they're not going to do it like well, they will, if, if ways at the endof this matters to that, that's t doesn't well, then do you have anyother examples. I love the example you shared earlier any other clients thatare thatre doing other crea things like that to give just to give someadditional ideas: yeah, yeah, there's! Well, there's countless for those. Your listeners, Wyou areactually still at the the the bbforum here in Boston marking. Pross actuallyhas a a spirit: animal ascessment theye doing in the BOOP Righnow, which isreally funny Bu Inothe Company, that we worked with Um part of Barcote network, which is alarge it shop. Fmthey created a assessment around Um. They help protect your data againststreet beaches and mallware and Ou know all these various threats that are, youknow ransomware. This come up, so they actually created an assessment thatwould help you gauge your readiness to withstand a ransomware attack thayav.These very clever characters called th. The data LAS gremlons o they use thosegranlons very creatively an in in the experience, but you know in theirbusiness. It was very it as e was target, extremel, Wellto, very, verytight set of people and then and the so when you get to the end of thatexperience, it says: Hey, you are you know whatever x y? U Jus A ringn. Ican't Remem I for that, but there there was a range of options like Youre, likeyou'r screwed to hey you'R, bulletproof God with some recommendations aboutwhat to do God. So so that was my next question is once they get through thatit that initial experience they gave...

...over very valuable information ar youas the brand, but they also got something extremely valuable, inpretalimpractical that that they want. At that point, I would imagine, there'sjust a matter of then integrating it with your marketing automation, so thatnow you're delivering a truly customize SINC. I have nurture sequit. That'swhat based on the data. That's right! JUST CA! That's right and you can. Youcan really take the you can hold a lead longer. We focus on our team aboutgetting people to take the next action when someone downloads an most mostcompanis, don't do this, but when someone suscribs ore log, that's notaweat yeah, okay and we don most companies, don't treat box DESCRIBACitsthelead Ho. Now people who attend to weapon are most people treat those asleads we don't we treat thos is people just taking another? What we callactivation action. I wish jus given US license to send them more information,that's tied to what they said and with how they interacted with us with ourgoal of getting people to keep taking the next action until they're ready totalk to our Seltea, and we have. We have four or five things which we callconversion actions like Youerqustademo on our website. We have a free product,Ouan Dat, the free products. Those are those are signals to us that you'reready to talk to us and those are the only thesgs we sen E. I o o o ownlittle case, thate her Eitheno ealy days and we're testing this out. Cour Much more company than many rlisteners, but you O we're delivered. We deliveredat at Tenth of the leadvine last month, same number of or flat sales outcomes.So we tracked him down the FONA. You know: Soro Conversion Rate Wis, five xwon a tenth of Leve Wow, just incredibly efficient right Saysen having to pickthrough th. You know the chaft fin the good Menes and they just focus on thegood gass and we hold them a caumal to the good ones, O look. We have beat oursales team up to cross Ali, be to be to follow upon the White Paper. LEAC justmake the cause make the caus do the catence and you know- and it's a lot ofcold Tal Yeah Os Bot cals, I hidn now, so they just so they do it yeah that's,but they treat all the leaves the same so that somebody who requests o theDamil get street the same e download...

...white paper and no Universit, and we train them not to do that. Butin a volume environment. That's that's how they're Asuarr measured on theactivity. So I took all that activity off the table, and so here you go andgave them. Mgework gave them so much context for each P, qualifiedlyabecause of the assessment that they riht tha they exacty yeah. I canimagine that now, you've you've got much more engaged sales person, becausethey've got data that they can actually use to have unintelligent conversationright as opposed to tha, smiling and- and we told them these arethe goodleads yeah and we're going to hold Youra Cowbol, like se the gun, gryletesRgh esle that you kN W we know are going to convert because they have toldus their Bados on us. No, no, I'm not asking you to fight through the junkanymore, so it's transforing for them. We've. We had a good relationship withsales, but we have even better relaties to havsals now ut. It's also freeingfor my ta we're not a Wen I', a huge team Um. You know, but we're focussing.We change the dynamics of what we focus in on. We change our measurements, Yepand rund. Ni Love it n. If there's somebody listening to this they'rethey're curious to maybe mor examples or learn more, how can they connect with you? How canthey learn more about SNAPAF yeah? Well, I mean t'snap. o tcom is definitely thebest way and I would encourage all INS Tho check out our blaw. We spend a tonof time really thinking about issues and topics that will resonatewith our with our audience Yif. So we encourage you designer for that. Weactually published a block post Um. That is a hundred and one interactivecontenentas M, so we curated a list ove a hundred and one different ideas, andthen we also said that listis there yo can search fof that for easily on owebsite and then there's also as part of that we create an idegenerator o using our product. So you basically can put in a couple of keywords and then ill come back with Hay. He here's three four ideas: espentially.Ah I love IT OARAN WE'LL! Thank you somuch for your time to day man. This is been incredible: Thanksgams, PPE Shit.

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