545: The 3 Things You Need to Perfect Your Sales Cadence w/ Gabe Larsen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Gabe Larsen, Vice President of InsideSales Labs.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabelarsen/

Looking for a guaranteed way to createcontent that resonates with your audience? Start a podcast, interview your ideal clientsand let them choose the topic of the interview, because if your ideal clientscare about the topic, there's a good chance the rest of your audience willcare about it too. Learn more at sweet phish MEDIACOM. You're listening tothe B toob growth show, a podcast dedicated to helping be to be executivesachieve explosive growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. I'm Jonathan Green and I'm James Carberry. Let's get it into the show. Welcome back to the B to begross show. Today we are joined by Gabe Larson. Gabe is a repeaguest of the B to be gross shows. We are excited to have him back. He is the vice president of inside sales labs. He is alsothe host of the playmaker podcast game. Welcome back to the show, dollman. It's great to be back. You know, I gotta Admit Jonathan. You know, we've been running our podcast now for about a year.Have A, you know, hundred forty hundred, fifty episodes, but alot of that is due to a lot of the coaching that you would davesweet fish media, is done. So we've been having a blast on theplaymaker podcast and to get appreciate all the advice of the support you guys havegiven. Well, thank you so much for that. We do really appreciateit. I you know, your enthusiasm is infectious, so it's fantastic tohave you on the show. I know you're getting over a little bit ofa cold, so for for digging deep and joining us today. We aregoing to be talking about the three things that you need to perfect your salescadence and I think that the the sales executives that we have in our audienceare obviously going to get a lot out of this. I think the marketingexecutives are also going to get a lot out of this content. We're goingto tie it back to marketing. But before we get into all of that, Gabe, won't you just tell us a little about you in the insidesales lab team have been up to you...

...lately? Yeah, you know alot of people are like, what the Hell's inside sales labs? You guyshave white coats and goodlooking lab assistants, and answer to bold of those isactually no. You know, inside sales labs is really our innovation are,but inside salescommats our research, experimentation and best practice, and so once amonth we do a research report. We actually just got highlighted into Harvard BusinessReview for one of the research reports we did. We wrote experiments, sowe try to figure out what's working kind of in sales and marketing and then, last but not least, we published a lot of that around best practiceso that our clients and prospects could recognize stuff that actually works. That's fantastic, and recently you've sort of done a very indepth study research project about sortof sales caden's exactly what we're going to be talking about today. So you'redefinitely the person that we to have on the show talking about it. Gameon, on, unless you start to take it away. What are wegoing to be talking about with sales cadens today? Yeah, well, youknow, you and I we're talking pre show a little bit, and thisis this is a problem in the market a lot of people are always tryingto figure out, especially on the marketing side, how do I generate greatleads? You know, how do I? How do I get them? Howdo I get people aware and curious and kind of down that marketing funnel? The thing that's often overlooked is we spend all this time, in alot of money, a lot of dollars per league, generating the lead andthen, as a market or is the sales person, we kind of letit just go with whatever meeting, you know, we let the sales teamfollow up with leads in whatever fashion or manner they prefer. And so whatwe did is we wanted to say, Hey, let's see if we cando a deep dive into this, let's see if we can study and weactually looked at about ninezero companies and we did what we call fourteen thousandttle overfourteen thousand cadence audits. Now, what that means is we actually created realpeople, real companies. Read website went...

...on to the fortune one hundred.You know, a lot of companies, websites went on to their most relevantlead form, whether that was a contact us, a free demo, somethingto basically get a response back from them, and we said we're just going tomeasure it as an external auditor. We're going to see what people did, and so we got about fourteen thousand of those crossing the nine thousand companies. And really we on to figure out how well are people handling marketing spedwhen it comes to leave generation? Yeah, and I'd so. I mean it'sso important because you you invest all of this time, money effort onthe marketing side and you don't want that to just disappear. I mean,this is, you know, this is completing the circuit hare well, andthat's the problem. You know, when we go out visit these companies,a lot of these sales reps, are sales development reps or whoever's designated tofollow up on marketing spend. You know, a lot of they'll say how manytimes should I attempt contact, or what methods are most likely to resultthe conversation? What messaging will resonate with my potential buy er? And andthere's this disconnect between sales and marketing and often times these people are filling prettyempty hand. And what it comes to what is best practice and how canI make sure we maximize that spend? Yeah, and so one of thefirst things that we're going to talk about then, today on this episode isyou do have you've seen your sort of put together the five components that actuallymake up a successful cadence. You know, one of the real interesting things thatthe came out of this study. You know, one was certainly thisconcept of what is a cadence. You know, sometimes people market or salespeople will say hey, what's your cadence, and there is some sort of ageneral agreement, I believe, of what that means. But we wantedto go deeper and see if we couldn't actually get a solid definition and thenreally bring to the bring to the surface what the DNA of a cadence was. And so we're all about our fort forty three round on the definition here. But to us, just to make...

...sure we're on the same page,a cadence is a sequence of activities to increase contact and qualification. Some peopleare like to that. Really take forty three times again. Yes, itdid. Too many cooks in the kitchen, but a lot of meat in there. You know, a sequence means data. Should be more data drivenwhen it comes to activities. You got to recognize that the days of change, there's actually multiple types of activities. You have phone and text message andvoicemail and email and social and mailers, text message and mailer's being too,that are really coming into kind of the light, especially in different industries.And then when you think of the CADEN's, it's not just about getting somebody onthe phone with the contact rates, but it is about qualification. Ifyou do a cadence right, you can educate your buyers so that they aremore likely to jump into that sales pipeline and move down the process. Soso when it comes to sales kid that's kind of our definition and that wasreally helpful for us just to start to build a common language when we talkto different people about what is a case. Then we took one step deeper andsaid, okay, if that's the definition, what really is the makeupof a cake? So we went out there. You'll find this money.We go out and do some research and we found a couple things, andI won't name these studies, but we were looking again just at the marketingside, how people are responding to event least. But we looked at onestudy that said the average Rep says that they touch a lead fifteen point fivetimes. We say, interesting, you know that's a survey. I wonderwhat the real date is. So we do have a little bit more andwe found that again based on research, the average rep says that their cadencelast twenty days. So we said, okay, so maybe part of theDNA of a cadence is total touches and maybe duration, how long they go. But is there? Is there something else that really makes up a cadenceand long and Shortno, it's a long...

...waited answer, but we came outwith these five pillars and it really is attempts. That's going to be yourtotal number of touches over a given period of time. Number two is media. That's the media pattern that you're going to use. So are you onlyuse an email? Are you only using phone? Are you how do youmix and match phone, email and social? Number three was duration, so that'sgoing to be the length of time from start to finish, first touchto last. Number four is spacing, and probably the most missed his spacing, the time gap between attempts. Were saying that there's some real best practiceson spacing. And then, last but not least, number five was content, and that's basically the messaging you're going to use in that email, inthat voicemail in that initial conversation. Well, and it's interesting I mean that thatyou have defined sort of the these five different components. But I meaneven even just thinking through, there can there can be so much variation innerplay amongst these components. I mean the way, and you know the numbertwo of the media pattern. You're going to see more successful using a certainkind of spacing and pacing number for then you know if you were, ifyou were doing email versus we don't whatever it is. I mean that's it'sis a quagmire. I mean there's so much information there. It in youcan you can mix a match stuff, but the great thing is, Jonathan, is that you can, you know, at least for us, because youknow we offer some technology to help people optimize their cads and truthfully,before this came out, I was a little unsure of maybe how to sitdown with someone would really build the cadence. But these five pillars just give mea great road map and say hey, let's talk about your attempts or yourpattern or your spacing in your duration. It allows me to kind of getdeeper than, I think, what was typically done to the past,which is, yeah, let's just you know, maybe start reach it outto him. Yeah, that's fantastic. So I so I love this breakdown. You've got the five components gave. Let's talk a little about the industrybenchmarks then. Yeah, so I want...

...to get hid into the benchmarks aroundthese five pillars. So the the interesting thing was, let me just kindof go through to high level is I mentioned. I just thought this isso facity, Jena, that it just shows you kind of the bias thatwe often have. When you ask sales reps, and again I've got bothmy internal data and an external data piece, so let me just reveal both ofthem. When you ask sales rops how many times that's attempts that theyfollow up on inbound leads, one study says fifteen point five. Another studysays twelve point one. When when we actually audited, we actually really lookedat the data, what people really did, the number was at four five.Wow, that's like a three hundred percent difference in what we think wedo versus what we actually do. I mean, if you just put ifnothing else, if you get nothing else from this show, I dare youto go and figure out what your people think they do versus what they're actuallydoing with Your Marketing Spend, Aka leads that are generated. Because if that'strue in your organization, that's that's that's an incredible number. A three hundredpercent difference in what people say or what the actually do. Right. Well, and and I think, and actually the tendency would be to you know, sort of overestimate of what we're you doing. So it's not surprising,but it is jarring. It is still need tell me to hear those numbers. Is certainly you know, I mean throws into start contrast what we're telling. I'm that could type A guy who says, you know, I thinkI go to the gym, you know, ten times a week, but Inever actually get there. I get that problem, but I just,you know, it's daunting to see that I'm not the not the only one. So that's just on a number of attempts. Let me just go throughthe others just you can kind of get the idea here. When it cameto duration, that was the second thing we talked about. Rep saying uptypically their duration is twenty days. We...

...found that their typical duration is actuallyfour point eight nine days. So significantly different there as well. Now Iwon't bore you with everything. I'll just kind of whip through this. Soagain, attempts are at four five. That's the industry average. Media isheavily dominated by email. Most people are sending just a couple emails as theirfollow up. cadence duration is I mentioned, is about four point eight nine days. Spacing is it about five days? And then content. Interesting on thiscontent, the average prospecting email for inmail leads, and this is tryingto take away marketing generated leads. The team really spend a lot of timeto get anything that said, you know APP marketing or from marketing, andtry to find the exact rep name. Average linked was three hundred sixty twowords, with voicemails being right around twenty three seconds. So that's kind ofacross those five pillars. What, quote unquote, the industry averages would beso game. I mean, do you have any insights then, as tothe effectiveness? You know, I mean if these are the industry averages,I mean is that are people doing what they're supposed to be doing or areyou know, are those number is? Should those numbers be somewhere else?To Be Successful with your cadence? Yeah, that that's a great follow up question. So the great thing about this study was, you know, somepeople said, Hey, well, if you, if you pulled data formy sales force, a lot of my guys don't track their activities, soI'm sure the data was wrong, you know, and one of the reasonsthis study was designed the way it was was to try to be very butthe reason we called it an audit was because it was very much like theirs coming in externally. This is not how you cook your books. Thisis this is having an onditor externally come and say hey, everything was lookedat outside of your organization. So it was great to be able to say, no strings attached, this is what people are doing and we don't haveto deal with the bias of your,...

...you know, maybe crappy data or, you know, what your Rep said versus what they did say. Thisis literally what our machine caught, whether you like it or not. Sothat was great. But what that didn't allow then was for us to reallydive deep into say hey, this, which cadences were most effective? Youknow what, which ones led to better results, because we did this isa third party external auditor. So then we had to kind of jump backin it's say, let's see if we can't figure out if this is industryaverage. Let's go study some companies and figure out what cadences are actually leadingto better results. And so we jumped into a handful of companies, ourown company included, and tried to figure out, you know, what doesnow industry average versus great look like? Yeah, and I also have toimagine then gave that in the results, the the advice, the everything canbe very industry specifics. So I know that you also have some some numberswhen it comes to sort of what industries have been performing the best and whatindustries have been performing the worst across these five components. Yeah, yeah,you know that that is difficult. It's you. You want to take ageneral study like this say hey, here's what's happening and then here's what youknow maybe best practice is or is not. And you certainly saw one of thebig, big, big differentiators was this idea of industry. So,for example, you know duration was very long in the software industry. Durationjumped all the way up to almost sixty days, whereas in transportation, youknow, it was in kind of the load single digit beginning teams numbers.So in that that would be just one example. If you jump into thespacing concept, if I remember right, you know, finance had really tightspacing, whereas healthcare they were more than, you know, one to two,two wish rage, whereas healthcare then jumped up and went for a fullbusiness week, you know, five or six days. And so it's interestingto see that by industry you're going to...

...run into some real differences. isto cut of what the benchmarks are. Again, benchmarks and best practice orgoing to be two different things. But recognize that by industry you probably needto be thinking about something slightly different. Well, and gave you are certainlythe you're certainly act the expert when it comes to to sort of developing thissales cadence. You've done the research. You and your team and inside salesare doing fantastic work. I have to imagine if any of our listeners areinterested in getting a little bit more specific, you know, they maybe they wantsome some feedback on their particular industry, their particular company. They want toreach out, they want to connect with you. What's the best wayfor them to go about doing that? You know, the best thing aboutthe study was just a little tool we've built on top of it. It'scalled cadence assessment and because we found just kind of as up as we wereending, you know, differences between verticals and industry and maybe, if I'mmore of an inbound sales development rep, you know, somebody who responds toleads versus someone who maybe just goes out cold to target account cadence is verywidely when it comes to different motions and industry. So what we ended updoing is we've built this tool and you know, it's probably not super excittivesuper duper scientific, but it gives you a great ideas to where you mightwant to be. So if you go to cadence assessment, not accelerated sideSalescom one more time, that's cadence assessment dot accelerated side Salescom, you canactually plug in what your cadence is, you know say hey, this ishow what he calls, we do, is how whaty emails. It willbasically score. It will say hey, based on the research that we have, this is we we'd consider you a poor cadence. This is probably whereyou want to be, based on looking at industry and motioned some of thoseother filters. So that's probably the most actual because a lot of people theyhave a hard time measure of their kids to get into their CR but theythey talked to their people and their two...

...people till they're doing great their crm. They can't pull it out. So they're like all, where should webe? This is probably the best first step to get kid's assessment not acceleratedside Salescom. That's perfect well, and if anyone didn't get didn't catch that, will make sure to include that link in our show notes again. Wewere talking a day with Game Lars and gave. Thank you so much fortaking some time out of your day sharing your expertise with us here on theshow. And again also, everyone, make sure you go check out theplaymaker podcast. Gave is gave as the host of the playmeric the podcast.So thank you very much. Appreciate having you on the show. Thanks.Take care. If you've been getting valued from this podcast, you can helpus reach more people by reviewing the show on itunes. Here's how you canleave a review in less than a minute. Open your podcast APP and tap thesearch icon in the bottom right corner. Type in fee to be growth,then select our show. Once you're there, tap the reviews tab andtell us what you think of the show. These reviews help us out of time. Thank you so much for listening, until next time.

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