545: The 3 Things You Need to Perfect Your Sales Cadence w/ Gabe Larsen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Gabe Larsen, Vice President of InsideSales Labs.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabelarsen/

Looking for a guaranteed way to create content that resonates with your audience? Start a podcast, interview your ideal clients and let them choose the topic of the interview, because if your ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good chance the rest of your audience will care about it too. Learn more at sweet phish MEDIACOM. You're listening to the B toob growth show, a podcast dedicated to helping be to be executives achieve explosive growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. I'm Jonathan Green and I'm James Carberry. Let's get it into the show. Welcome back to the B to be gross show. Today we are joined by Gabe Larson. Gabe is a repea guest of the B to be gross shows. We are excited to have him back. He is the vice president of inside sales labs. He is also the host of the playmaker podcast game. Welcome back to the show, doll man. It's great to be back. You know, I gotta Admit Jonathan. You know, we've been running our podcast now for about a year. Have A, you know, hundred forty hundred, fifty episodes, but a lot of that is due to a lot of the coaching that you would dave sweet fish media, is done. So we've been having a blast on the playmaker podcast and to get appreciate all the advice of the support you guys have given. Well, thank you so much for that. We do really appreciate it. I you know, your enthusiasm is infectious, so it's fantastic to have you on the show. I know you're getting over a little bit of a cold, so for for digging deep and joining us today. We are going to be talking about the three things that you need to perfect your sales cadence and I think that the the sales executives that we have in our audience are obviously going to get a lot out of this. I think the marketing executives are also going to get a lot out of this content. We're going to tie it back to marketing. But before we get into all of that, Gabe, won't you just tell us a little about you in the inside sales lab team have been up to you...

...lately? Yeah, you know a lot of people are like, what the Hell's inside sales labs? You guys have white coats and goodlooking lab assistants, and answer to bold of those is actually no. You know, inside sales labs is really our innovation are, but inside salescommats our research, experimentation and best practice, and so once a month we do a research report. We actually just got highlighted into Harvard Business Review for one of the research reports we did. We wrote experiments, so we try to figure out what's working kind of in sales and marketing and then, last but not least, we published a lot of that around best practice so that our clients and prospects could recognize stuff that actually works. That's fantastic, and recently you've sort of done a very indepth study research project about sort of sales caden's exactly what we're going to be talking about today. So you're definitely the person that we to have on the show talking about it. Game on, on, unless you start to take it away. What are we going to be talking about with sales cadens today? Yeah, well, you know, you and I we're talking pre show a little bit, and this is this is a problem in the market a lot of people are always trying to figure out, especially on the marketing side, how do I generate great leads? You know, how do I? How do I get them? How do I get people aware and curious and kind of down that marketing funnel? The thing that's often overlooked is we spend all this time, in a lot of money, a lot of dollars per league, generating the lead and then, as a market or is the sales person, we kind of let it just go with whatever meeting, you know, we let the sales team follow up with leads in whatever fashion or manner they prefer. And so what we did is we wanted to say, Hey, let's see if we can do a deep dive into this, let's see if we can study and we actually looked at about ninezero companies and we did what we call fourteen thousandttle over fourteen thousand cadence audits. Now, what that means is we actually created real people, real companies. Read website went...

...on to the fortune one hundred. You know, a lot of companies, websites went on to their most relevant lead form, whether that was a contact us, a free demo, something to basically get a response back from them, and we said we're just going to measure it as an external auditor. We're going to see what people did, and so we got about fourteen thousand of those crossing the nine thousand companies. And really we on to figure out how well are people handling marketing sped when it comes to leave generation? Yeah, and I'd so. I mean it's so important because you you invest all of this time, money effort on the marketing side and you don't want that to just disappear. I mean, this is, you know, this is completing the circuit hare well, and that's the problem. You know, when we go out visit these companies, a lot of these sales reps, are sales development reps or whoever's designated to follow up on marketing spend. You know, a lot of they'll say how many times should I attempt contact, or what methods are most likely to result the conversation? What messaging will resonate with my potential buy er? And and there's this disconnect between sales and marketing and often times these people are filling pretty empty hand. And what it comes to what is best practice and how can I make sure we maximize that spend? Yeah, and so one of the first things that we're going to talk about then, today on this episode is you do have you've seen your sort of put together the five components that actually make up a successful cadence. You know, one of the real interesting things that the came out of this study. You know, one was certainly this concept of what is a cadence. You know, sometimes people market or sales people will say hey, what's your cadence, and there is some sort of a general agreement, I believe, of what that means. But we wanted to go deeper and see if we couldn't actually get a solid definition and then really bring to the bring to the surface what the DNA of a cadence was. And so we're all about our fort forty three round on the definition here. But to us, just to make...

...sure we're on the same page, a cadence is a sequence of activities to increase contact and qualification. Some people are like to that. Really take forty three times again. Yes, it did. Too many cooks in the kitchen, but a lot of meat in there. You know, a sequence means data. Should be more data driven when it comes to activities. You got to recognize that the days of change, there's actually multiple types of activities. You have phone and text message and voicemail and email and social and mailers, text message and mailer's being too, that are really coming into kind of the light, especially in different industries. And then when you think of the CADEN's, it's not just about getting somebody on the phone with the contact rates, but it is about qualification. If you do a cadence right, you can educate your buyers so that they are more likely to jump into that sales pipeline and move down the process. So so when it comes to sales kid that's kind of our definition and that was really helpful for us just to start to build a common language when we talk to different people about what is a case. Then we took one step deeper and said, okay, if that's the definition, what really is the makeup of a cake? So we went out there. You'll find this money. We go out and do some research and we found a couple things, and I won't name these studies, but we were looking again just at the marketing side, how people are responding to event least. But we looked at one study that said the average Rep says that they touch a lead fifteen point five times. We say, interesting, you know that's a survey. I wonder what the real date is. So we do have a little bit more and we found that again based on research, the average rep says that their cadence last twenty days. So we said, okay, so maybe part of the DNA of a cadence is total touches and maybe duration, how long they go. But is there? Is there something else that really makes up a cadence and long and Shortno, it's a long...

...waited answer, but we came out with these five pillars and it really is attempts. That's going to be your total number of touches over a given period of time. Number two is media. That's the media pattern that you're going to use. So are you only use an email? Are you only using phone? Are you how do you mix and match phone, email and social? Number three was duration, so that's going to be the length of time from start to finish, first touch to last. Number four is spacing, and probably the most missed his spacing, the time gap between attempts. Were saying that there's some real best practices on spacing. And then, last but not least, number five was content, and that's basically the messaging you're going to use in that email, in that voicemail in that initial conversation. Well, and it's interesting I mean that that you have defined sort of the these five different components. But I mean even even just thinking through, there can there can be so much variation inner play amongst these components. I mean the way, and you know the number two of the media pattern. You're going to see more successful using a certain kind of spacing and pacing number for then you know if you were, if you were doing email versus we don't whatever it is. I mean that's it's is a quagmire. I mean there's so much information there. It in you can you can mix a match stuff, but the great thing is, Jonathan, is that you can, you know, at least for us, because you know we offer some technology to help people optimize their cads and truthfully, before this came out, I was a little unsure of maybe how to sit down with someone would really build the cadence. But these five pillars just give me a great road map and say hey, let's talk about your attempts or your pattern or your spacing in your duration. It allows me to kind of get deeper than, I think, what was typically done to the past, which is, yeah, let's just you know, maybe start reach it out to him. Yeah, that's fantastic. So I so I love this breakdown. You've got the five components gave. Let's talk a little about the industry benchmarks then. Yeah, so I want...

...to get hid into the benchmarks around these five pillars. So the the interesting thing was, let me just kind of go through to high level is I mentioned. I just thought this is so facity, Jena, that it just shows you kind of the bias that we often have. When you ask sales reps, and again I've got both my internal data and an external data piece, so let me just reveal both of them. When you ask sales rops how many times that's attempts that they follow up on inbound leads, one study says fifteen point five. Another study says twelve point one. When when we actually audited, we actually really looked at the data, what people really did, the number was at four five. Wow, that's like a three hundred percent difference in what we think we do versus what we actually do. I mean, if you just put if nothing else, if you get nothing else from this show, I dare you to go and figure out what your people think they do versus what they're actually doing with Your Marketing Spend, Aka leads that are generated. Because if that's true in your organization, that's that's that's an incredible number. A three hundred percent difference in what people say or what the actually do. Right. Well, and and I think, and actually the tendency would be to you know, sort of overestimate of what we're you doing. So it's not surprising, but it is jarring. It is still need tell me to hear those numbers. Is certainly you know, I mean throws into start contrast what we're telling. I'm that could type A guy who says, you know, I think I go to the gym, you know, ten times a week, but I never actually get there. I get that problem, but I just, you know, it's daunting to see that I'm not the not the only one. So that's just on a number of attempts. Let me just go through the others just you can kind of get the idea here. When it came to duration, that was the second thing we talked about. Rep saying up typically their duration is twenty days. We...

...found that their typical duration is actually four point eight nine days. So significantly different there as well. Now I won't bore you with everything. I'll just kind of whip through this. So again, attempts are at four five. That's the industry average. Media is heavily dominated by email. Most people are sending just a couple emails as their follow up. cadence duration is I mentioned, is about four point eight nine days. Spacing is it about five days? And then content. Interesting on this content, the average prospecting email for inmail leads, and this is trying to take away marketing generated leads. The team really spend a lot of time to get anything that said, you know APP marketing or from marketing, and try to find the exact rep name. Average linked was three hundred sixty two words, with voicemails being right around twenty three seconds. So that's kind of across those five pillars. What, quote unquote, the industry averages would be so game. I mean, do you have any insights then, as to the effectiveness? You know, I mean if these are the industry averages, I mean is that are people doing what they're supposed to be doing or are you know, are those number is? Should those numbers be somewhere else? To Be Successful with your cadence? Yeah, that that's a great follow up question. So the great thing about this study was, you know, some people said, Hey, well, if you, if you pulled data for my sales force, a lot of my guys don't track their activities, so I'm sure the data was wrong, you know, and one of the reasons this study was designed the way it was was to try to be very but the reason we called it an audit was because it was very much like the irs coming in externally. This is not how you cook your books. This is this is having an onditor externally come and say hey, everything was looked at outside of your organization. So it was great to be able to say, no strings attached, this is what people are doing and we don't have to deal with the bias of your,...

...you know, maybe crappy data or, you know, what your Rep said versus what they did say. This is literally what our machine caught, whether you like it or not. So that was great. But what that didn't allow then was for us to really dive deep into say hey, this, which cadences were most effective? You know what, which ones led to better results, because we did this is a third party external auditor. So then we had to kind of jump back in it's say, let's see if we can't figure out if this is industry average. Let's go study some companies and figure out what cadences are actually leading to better results. And so we jumped into a handful of companies, our own company included, and tried to figure out, you know, what does now industry average versus great look like? Yeah, and I also have to imagine then gave that in the results, the the advice, the everything can be very industry specifics. So I know that you also have some some numbers when it comes to sort of what industries have been performing the best and what industries have been performing the worst across these five components. Yeah, yeah, you know that that is difficult. It's you. You want to take a general study like this say hey, here's what's happening and then here's what you know maybe best practice is or is not. And you certainly saw one of the big, big, big differentiators was this idea of industry. So, for example, you know duration was very long in the software industry. Duration jumped all the way up to almost sixty days, whereas in transportation, you know, it was in kind of the load single digit beginning teams numbers. So in that that would be just one example. If you jump into the spacing concept, if I remember right, you know, finance had really tight spacing, whereas healthcare they were more than, you know, one to two, two wish rage, whereas healthcare then jumped up and went for a full business week, you know, five or six days. And so it's interesting to see that by industry you're going to...

...run into some real differences. is to cut of what the benchmarks are. Again, benchmarks and best practice or going to be two different things. But recognize that by industry you probably need to be thinking about something slightly different. Well, and gave you are certainly the you're certainly act the expert when it comes to to sort of developing this sales cadence. You've done the research. You and your team and inside sales are doing fantastic work. I have to imagine if any of our listeners are interested in getting a little bit more specific, you know, they maybe they want some some feedback on their particular industry, their particular company. They want to reach out, they want to connect with you. What's the best way for them to go about doing that? You know, the best thing about the study was just a little tool we've built on top of it. It's called cadence assessment and because we found just kind of as up as we were ending, you know, differences between verticals and industry and maybe, if I'm more of an inbound sales development rep, you know, somebody who responds to leads versus someone who maybe just goes out cold to target account cadence is very widely when it comes to different motions and industry. So what we ended up doing is we've built this tool and you know, it's probably not super excittive super duper scientific, but it gives you a great ideas to where you might want to be. So if you go to cadence assessment, not accelerated side Salescom one more time, that's cadence assessment dot accelerated side Salescom, you can actually plug in what your cadence is, you know say hey, this is how what he calls, we do, is how whaty emails. It will basically score. It will say hey, based on the research that we have, this is we we'd consider you a poor cadence. This is probably where you want to be, based on looking at industry and motioned some of those other filters. So that's probably the most actual because a lot of people they have a hard time measure of their kids to get into their CR but they they talked to their people and their two...

...people till they're doing great their crm. They can't pull it out. So they're like all, where should we be? This is probably the best first step to get kid's assessment not accelerated side Salescom. That's perfect well, and if anyone didn't get didn't catch that, will make sure to include that link in our show notes again. We were talking a day with Game Lars and gave. Thank you so much for taking some time out of your day sharing your expertise with us here on the show. And again also, everyone, make sure you go check out the playmaker podcast. Gave is gave as the host of the playmeric the podcast. So thank you very much. Appreciate having you on the show. Thanks. Take care. If you've been getting valued from this podcast, you can help us reach more people by reviewing the show on itunes. Here's how you can leave a review in less than a minute. Open your podcast APP and tap the search icon in the bottom right corner. Type in fee to be growth, then select our show. Once you're there, tap the reviews tab and tell us what you think of the show. These reviews help us out of time. Thank you so much for listening, until next time.

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