545: The 3 Things You Need to Perfect Your Sales Cadence w/ Gabe Larsen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Gabe Larsen, Vice President of InsideSales Labs.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabelarsen/

Looking for a guaranteed way to createcontent that resonates with your audience start: U Poncast InterviewYour Ideal Client and let them choose the topic of the interview, because ifyour ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good chance, the rest of youraudience will care about. It too, learn more at sweetfish media, dotcom, you're, listening to the B to B groteshow pod cast dedicatinto, helping be to B executives and she's explosivegrown when you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools andresources. You've come to the right place, I'm Jonathan Green and I'm JamesCarnary. Let's get t into the show, Ollg back to the bean O be Gros show.Today we are joined by game. Larson game is a repe guest of the Betabe Groshows we are excited. Having back, he is the vice president of inside sales.Labs he's also the host of the playmaker podcast game. Welcome back tothe shol, Jo t, it's great to be back. You know, I got to admit Jonathan Uh,you know we've been running our podcast now for about a year. Have you knowhundred and forty hundred and fifty episodes, but a lot of that is due to alot of the coaching that you and James sweetfish media's done, so we've beenout in a blast on the playmaker, potcast and again appreciate all theadvice and the support a you guys have given wellthank you so much for that.We do really appreciate it. You know your your enthusiasm is infectious, soit's fantasic to have you on the show. I know you're getting over a little bitof a cold, so her digging, deep and and joining us today we are going to betalking about that three things sa that you need and to perfect your salescadence, and I think that the sales executives that we have inour audience are obviously going to get a lot out of this. I think themarketing executives are also going to get a lot out of this content, we'regoing to tie you back to marketing, but before we get into all of that game one.You just tell us a little about hat you...

...and the inside sales lab team haven upto lately. Yeah. You know a lot of people are like what the hells insidesail labs. You guys have white coats and good lookat lab assistants and answered a bowl of thosees. Actually,no, you know inside sales. Labs is really our intovation armetd insidesales com, its our research, experimentation and best practice, andso once a month we do a research report. We actually just got highlighted inthea Harvard Business Review for one of the research reports. We did, we runexperiment, so we try to figure out what's working kind of in sales andmarketing and the lastbut at least we published a lot of that around bestpractices so that our clients and prospects could recognize stuff thatactually works. That's fantastic and recently, you've sort of done a very indepth, study research, project about sort of sales, Kat a's, exactly whatwe're going to be talking about today. So you definitely the person that weneed to have on the show talking about it game, I'm ONA, LUNC, hows wort, totake it away. What arremies Ar Abot was sales catins today yeah? Well, you knowyou and I we're talking. Pre Show a little bit, and this is this is aproblem in the market. A lot of people are always trying to figure out,especially on the marketing side. How I generate great leads, you know H, howdo I, how do I get 'em? How do I get people aware and curious and kind odown that marketing fuddle? The thing that's often overlooked? is we spendall this time in a lot of money, lot of dollars per league generating the leadand then is a marketor s, a salesperson we kind of let it just go with whatevermeaning. You know we let the sales team follow up with leads in whateverfashion or mannor they prefer, and so what we did is we wanted to say: Hey,let's see if we can do a deep dive into this, let's see if we can study- and weactually looked at about nine thousand companies, and we did what we callfourteen thousand over fourteen thousand cadence audits. Now what thatmeans is we actually created real people? Real company's real website,went on to the fortune. One hundred,...

...you know a lot of companies. Websiteswent onto their most relevant lead form whether that was a contact us a freedemo, something to basically get a response back from them, and we saidwe're just going to mentore it as an external auditor, we're going to seewhat people did, and so he got about fourteen thousand of those crossninethousand companies and really we want to figure out how well are peoplehandling marketing spend when it comes to lead generation? Yeah, an D, so Imean it's so important because you, you invest all of this time, money efforton the marketing side, and you don't want that to just disappear. I meanthis is o know. This is completing the circuit here. Well, ND! That's theproblem. You know when we go out and visit these companies a lot of thesesales raps are sales development, raps or whoever's designated to follow up onmarketing spend you know lo they'll say how many times should I it ave tocontact her. What methods are most likely to result the conversation, whatmessenging will resonate with my potential buyeron and there's thie's adisconnect between sales and marketing and oftentimes? These people arefelling, pretty empty handed when it comes to what is best practice, and howcan I make sure we maxle, as that spent Yo, and so one of the first things thatwe're going to talk about then today, on this episode is, you do have you'resort of put together the five components that actually make up thesesuccessful cadencs. You know one of the real interesting things that that cameout of this study. You know one was Um. Certainly this concept of what isaccadence Oknow, sometimes people, market or sales people will say, hey.What's your patens and there is some sort of a general agreement. I believeo what that means, but we wanted to go deeper and see if we couldn't actuallyget a solid definition and then really bring to the bring to the surface. Whatthe D N A of a can was, and so we're on about our four forty third round on onthe definition here, but to us just to...

...make ture ere on the same page, acadence is a sequence of activities to increase contact and qualification.Some people are like Di that really take forty three times to get yes, toomany cooks in the kitchen, but a lot of meat in there you know a sequence meansdata should be more data driven when it comes to activities. You got torecognize that the days have changed, there's actually multiple types ofactivities, yephone and text message, Voicemelin, email and social and Baylortext, message and nailers being two that are really coming into c kind ofthe light, especially in different industries and then, when you think ofthe Kings, it's not just about getting somebody on the phone with the contactrates, but it is about qualification. If you do a cavence Rigt, you caneducate your buyers so that they are more likely to jump into that salespipeline and move down the process. So so, when it comes to sales, cade,that's kind of our definition, and that was really helpful for us just to startto build a common language. When we talk to different people about what isa case, then we took one step deeper and said: okay, that's the definition.What really is the makeup of of a cake, so we went out there you'll find isfunny we go out and do some research and we found a couple of things, and Iwon't name these studies but and we were looking again just at themarketing side how people are responding to Amboutl ut. We looked atone study that said the average rap says that they touch a lead. Fifteenpoint five times we SAI. How interesting you know. That's a survey.I wonder what the real date is, so we dove a little bit more. We found thatagain, based on research. The average REP says that their cadence laststwenty days, so we said okay, so maybe part of the D N, a of accadences totaltouches in maybe duration, how long they go, but is there? Is theresomething else that really makes up a cang, an low and short, it's a long wayto answer, but we came out with these...

...five pillars and it really is attempse.That's going to be your total number of touches over a given period of timenumber to is media. That's the medium pattern that you're going to use, oryou only use an email ore you only using phone or y. How do you mix amatch? Phone email and social number. Three was duration, so that's going tobe the length of time from start to finish. First touch to laugh, numberFORIS spacing and probably the most mysddisfacing. The time gap betweenattempts were seeing that there's some real best practices, onspacing and thenlast at least number five was content and that's basically, the messagingyou're going to use in that email in that voice. Mell in that initialconversation land, it's interesting, I mean that that you have defined sort ofthese five different components, but I mean even even just thinking throughTheren, there can be so much variation inner play amongst these components. Imean the way. You know the number two, the media pattern, you're going to seelike awol, using a certain kind of spacing and pacing number four. Thenyou know if you were, if you were doing email versus we whatever it is, I meanat it a Qui Mir. I mean there is so much information there at n. You can.You can mix some match suf, but the great thing is Jonathan. Is that youcan you know at least for US 'cause? You know we offer some technology tohelp people optimize their cades. In truthfully, before this came out, I wasa little unsure, maybe how to sit down with someone who really build a Capens,but these five pillars just give me a great road map and say: Hey. Let's talkabout your attempts or your patters, an Youre stacing in your duration and tallows me to Kinda get deeper than I think what was typically done to thepast, which is yeah. Let's just you know, maybe start reach it out to e yeahthat's fantastic. So so I lot thisbreakdown. You've got the five components. Gamelet's talk a littleabout the industry benchmarks, then...

...yeah. So I want to get Ahin in thebenchmarks around these five pillars. The the interesting thing was, let mejust kindof go through the high level is I mentioned. I just thought this was so facity JUNPtand. It just shows you kind of the bias that we often have when you asksales raps, Um and again I've got both my internal data at an externaldatapiece. So let me just rebuild both of them. When you ask sales how manytimes that's attempts that they follow up on imbad leads. One study saysfifteen point five. Another study says twelve point one. When when we actuallyaudited, we actually really looked at the DATAF.What people really did? The number was at four point: Oh five wow. That's like a three hundred percentdifference in what we think we do versus what we actually do. I mean, ifyou just PIF, nothing else. If you get nothing else from the show, I dare yoto go and figure out what your people think they do versus what they'reactually doing with Your Marketing Spend Aka leads tat, ere generated'cause. If that's true in your organization, that's that's anincredible number, a three hundred percent difference in what people say:Erthey actually do iwell. I think, naturally the tendency would be too youknow sort of overestimate. What we're you doing. So it's notsurprising, but it is jarring. It is still that. Tell me the here of thosenumbers is is certainly h. You know I mean throws into start contrast. Wewe're telling I'mthattype of guy who says you know. I think I go to the gym.You know ten times a week, but I never actually get there. I get that thatproblem. I just you know it's daunting to see that I'm not the not the onlyone. So that's just o number of attempts. Let me just go through theothers. Just you KINDOF get the idea here when it came to duration. That wasth. The second thing we talked about Rep, saying typically their duration istwenty days. We found that their...

...typical duration is actually four point.Eight nine days so significantly different there as well. Now I won'tbore you with everything I'll just kindof whip through this. So againattempt Theu at four point: Oh five as's the industry, average media ispendually dominated by email. Most people are sending just a couple emailsas their follow up. CADENCE duration, as I mentioned, is about fourpoint. Eight nine day spacing: Is it about five days and then contentinteresting on this content, the average prospecting email for inmaundleads, and this is trying to take away marketing generatedly. The team reallyspent a lot of time to get anything. That said, you know out marketing orfrom marketing and Trye to find the exact rap name average linked withthree hundred and sixty two words with voice mails being right around twentythree seconds, so that's kind of across those five pillars. What quote unquotethe industry averages would be so game I mean: Do you have any insight, then?As to the UM effectiveness? You know I mean if theseare the industry averages I mean, is that are people doing what they'resupposed to be doing or- or you know, ar those numbers? Should those numbersbe somewhere else to be successful with your catencsyethat? That's a great follow question. So the great thing about this study was, you know some people said Hey. Well, ifyou, if you pulled data for my sals force, a lot of my guys, don't tracktheir activities. So I'm sure the data was was wrong. You know one of the reasons this study wasdesigned. The way it was was to try to be very w t the reason we called it anAuti was because it was very much like the IRS coming in externally. This is not how you cook your books.This is this ishouing, an auditor externally come and say: Hey everythingwas looked at outside of your organization, so it was great to beable to say no strings attached. This is what people are doing and we don'thave to deal with the bias of your. You...

...know. Mabe crappy, Dator Ryou know whatyou rest Aer S, what they did say. This is literally what our machine caught,whether you like it or not. So that was great, but what that didn't. Allow thenwas for us to really dype deep than to say, hey this, which cavsis were mosteffective. You know which ones led to better results, because we did this asa third party external auditor. So then we had to kind of jump back in and say,let's ee, if we can't figure out if this is industry average. Let's gostudy. Some companies and figure out what cadences are actually leading tobetter results, and so we jumped into a handful of companies, our own company,included and tried to figure out. You know what does now industry averageversus great look like yeah, and I also have to imagine then gave that theresults, the the advice, the everything can be very industry specific. So Iknow that you also have some some numbers when it comes to sort of whatindustries have been performed the best and what industries ha've beenperforming the worst across these five components: Yeah Yeah. You know thatthat is difficult. It's it's! You want to take a general study likethis say: Hey here's what's happening, and then here's what you know maybebest practice is or as not- and he certainly saw one of the big big bigdifferentiators was this idea of industry. So, for example, you know,duration was very long in in the software industry.Duration jumped all the way up to alvost sixty days, whereas intransportation you know it was in kind of h. The load single digit, begettingteams, numbers so hein. That nouit should be just one example. If you jumpinto the spacing concept, if I remember I, you know, finances had really tightspace where, as healthcare, they were more than you know one to two toishrage O, whereas healthcare then jumped up and went for a whole business week.You know five or six days, and so it's...

...interesting to see that, by by industry, you're going torun into some real differences is to cut of what the benchmarks are againbenchmarks. Tand best practice are going to be two different things, butrecognize that by industry you probably need to be thinking about somethingslightly different well and gave you are certainly the you certainly actingthe expert when it comes to to sort of developing as sales cadence. You'vedone, the research you and your team and inside sales of doing fantasticwork. I have to imagine if any of our listeners are interested in getting alittle bit more specific you Kn W. maybe they want some some feedback ontheir particular industry, their particular company. They want to reachout if they want to connect with you. What's the best way for them to goabout doing that, you know the best thing about the study was just a littletool we built on top of it. It's called cadens assessment. U, and because we found US kind as we wereending as differences between verticles and industry. Maybe if I'm more of aninbound sales, Developent Ra, O somebody who respons to leave theversus someone who baby just goes out cold to target a Kelnt Caden as verywidely when it comes to different motions and industry, so what we endedup doing as we built this tool, you know it'sprobably, not super exive,superduber scientific, but it gives you a great ideas to where you might wantto be. So if you go to cadence assessment, not acceleratinside salescom, Wa wartibness, cadence assessment, not accelerate inside sales com, youcan actually plug in what your cadence is. You know, say hey: this is how manycalls we do thes how many emails and will basically score we'll say e basedon the research that we have this s. We we'd consider you a a poor cadence.This is probably where you want to be based on looking at industry and motionin some of those other filters, so that's probably the most actual becausea lot of people they have a hard time measure in their caves they get intotheir crm and they they they talk to...

...their people. Theyre to people tellthem they're doing great their crn. They can't pull it out, ND, so they're,like God, where should we be? This is probably the best first step again:Canens assessment, dot, accelerated side, sales, dot, cum apartment well,and if anyone didn't didn't catch that well make sure he would include thatlink in our show notes. Again, we were talking Aday with game, Larece and GAM.Thank you so much for for taking some time out of your day, sharing yourexpertese with us you're on the show and again also everyone make sure yougo check out. The playmaker pocast gave, as came as the hose the play.Macropocastle thinkin very much GA appreciate having ot show they takecare. Ave you've been getting value from thispodcast. You can help us reach more people by reviewing the show on itunes.Here's how you can leave a review in less than a minute open your pod castout and tap the serch igon in the bottom Rad corner type in fee ob growththen select our show once you're. There, tate reviews to have and tell us whatyou think of the show. These reviews help us out of time. Thank you so muchfor listening until next time.

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