544: Digital Ad Creative in a Programmatic World w/ Jeremy Carlin

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Jeremy Carlin, VP of Business Development at Jetpack.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-carlin-05942420/

Are you struggling to come up with original content weekend and week out? Start a podcast, interview your ideal clients, let them talk about what they care about most, and never run out of content ideas again. Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to the BAB growth show, a podcast dedicated to help you be to be executives achieve explosive growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. I'm James Carberry and I'm Jonathan Green. Let's get into the show. Welcome back to the be to be growth show. Today we are joined by Jeremy Carlin. Jeremy is the vice president of business development at jet pack. Jeremy, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me, Jeremy. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. We actually Jeremy and I just talked for like half an hour before we started recording. It was an amazing conversation. We were just sort of catching back up on all the stuff that's been going on. I'm doing a new Halloween horror nights thing here in Orlando. Jeremy was telling me about how he recently got engaged and is, you know, now in sort of wedding planning mode. So that's fantastic, Jeremy. We are officially going to be talking today, though, about digital ad creative in a programmatic world and I'm thrilled to have you unpack that for our listeners. But before we do, but you can tell us a little about what you and the jet pack team are up to these days. Certainly so. Jet Pack digital has been around for over eight years at this point, started by three men who come from the publisher world and started a publisher that at the time was called buzz media. That eventually became spin media and then spin media, I think, was sunseted this year. Actually, so it was. It was around for a while, but the founders had been kind of done with that for a while. So basically, when they left they're kind of publishing background, they kind of started jet pack as a response to all the gaps that they had seen in the marketplace, specifically as it was as it relates to add creative. So add creative kind of became our signal call. We do it via a few different service models, including managed service. That has been our bread and butter for the entire length of time that we've been around. That's having our clients send us any sort of assets, photos, images, and then we kind of jumble that all together and put out a specific format or a way for the actual add creative to be viewed and a fun or different way. And we do that we have not only do we do that by a managed service where we're doing the kind of product building, and then we also have a self service portal where we have our clients go in and build it themselves. Tends to be a little bit more cost efficient, and we're actually putting out our self service tool into the...

...market within the next week. So we're super excited about that big product launch shot coming. And Yeah, now we're we definitely have some really cool things to come. We have been around for a while, but I think we're starting to make a splash these days because they just aren't that many people who do what we do anymore, which is focus on the publishing environment, you know, content creators, aggregators, and provide those folks with genuine and in innovative creative across multiple digital screens. Well, it's fantastic. We're looking forward to seeing what you guys are cooking up in the very near future, and today we are going to be. Like I said, we're talking about digital add creative in a programmatic world. That feels like a very dense sentence, Jeremy, let's help me help. Yeah, help me unpacked at a little bit for our listeners. Certainly so, programmatic for any folks that deal in the advertising world, specifically digital, but starting to be other elements as well. Anyone who deals in the media environment has heard of the term programmatic. For folks that have not, basically it's an automation of the way ADS are bought and sold through digital channels and basically it is created. It comes first. There's a in order to scale something, you need to have a standard for it. Right, they're there's a standard way in which everyone either does whatever you're doing that in and that way. Since everyone's doing it the same way, then you can grow it and more people can do it the same way. Blah, Blah Blah. Right. So by creating basically standard add sizes years and years ago, most of the time, I think the first standard ad sizes were put together by a few different companies, Google being one of them, and basically they created these different standard add sizes and by doing so over the years and automating those different standard add sizes, it's brought an exchanged like environment to digital media and that has had a whole range of different consequences, including on you know what we're going to talk about today, which is add creative. Okay, and I do, and you sort of this this first question I wanted to ask. I mean it almost feels like you're already getting into it. Is You know, what is standard media? How does that fit into the media landscape, you know, especially when we are talking about programmatic automated buying? Certainly and a good question. So the first thing I'll say is that programmatic has basically shifted the way that that folks really by purchase. Think about whatever it has to do with ads. Now that is very specific to add creative because, as I mentioned, there's these different standard sizes. For desktop, it's it's usually pixels, so it's a hundred...

...sixty by six, hundred, three hundred by two fifty and seven twenty eight by ninety. Again, if you're in digital media, this is old hat to you. Mobile Three hundred and twenty by fifty. So we've scale at this point all the major publishers online. Right, sell out via direct means much lower than it used to be, but let's just say thirty percent. So let's say you're a publisher and you sell out thirty percent of your inventory. What are you going to do with that other seventy percent, which is mostly made up of the the sizes that I just spoke about? You're going to send it out to other people or give it to different exchanges and different auction buying sites so that other people can buy and service your inventory and pay you to get on your site. Because that's what that's what it is, right, impressions iballs. That's what our whole business is about. So, because programmatic is, you know, some technology focused and you know it's supposed to be about automated buying. It was really supposed to bring all this efficiency for time and and money. And you know, since all this stuff has been you know, you don't have to email another eight to find out about the inventory details and see if what kind of budget requirements they have and all these different things that go into, you know, doing an RFP and getting a response and and actually doing business. Programmatic was supposed to cut all that stuff out. So it was supposed to be much cheaper and you're supposed to have be able to do more with less people and all that, all that jazz, and unfortunately it really hasn't gotten a gone that way. In fact, prices and programmatic platforms tend to be anywhere from ten to twenty percent higher than direct sold inventory. It's actually cheaper to go through direct soul than not go through these automated channels. For what we're talking about today, creative wise, programmatic is really strangled what we can do on a day to day basis for most creative endeavors. I saw a figure this week that said fifty percent of display inventory in Europe is programmatic at this point. So that means that fifty percent of the inventory is spread out between the basically these four side the four sizes that I mentioned earlier. So that's kind of strangled on how digital content and and add creative have kind of meshed. It's hard to do more high impact, funner, higher and innovative creative if everything's one standard size, and that basically is caused the strangulation of any sort of creativity in the market place and unfortunately that's a problem. You know, that's not so that's not something that's good for publishers, that's not good for advertisers and certainly not good for users. So yeah, so all right then, Jeremy, let me let me follow up that question with another one. And then how would you say that folks are should differentiate their nonprogrammatic and their programmatic inventory? I mean,...

I think there's just ways in which they're different in general. I mean, obviously the easiest way to determine which is which is, did you go on a platform and purchase the inventory? And and if you didn't, then you're not doing your programmatically. If you made a call or set an email to an a and talked to him that way, odds are it's direct. Now the programmatic channel has that as well. It's not completely devoid of, you know, having to make all those phone calls, right, the human the human element. You can't. You can't get rid of it entirely and you definitely cannot. In general, I think there's a few ways in which programmatic and nonprogrammatic kind of play one another. You know, I would say the first one, which has been a had a profound impact, is that most advertisers are searcher, searching for audiences whereas earlier they had been searching for different and different websites specifically. So I think in the RPS of the past, which in my old days within I was a media buyer all those years ago, basically, you know, I would send I have different buckets and I'd say, okay, I have this lifestyle product, you know, or something. I want to be playing my add units on a lifestyle site. So I would reach out to the as many different lifestyle sites as I thought I needed to and see what they could give me and all that good stuff. That nowadays have changed, I think, you know, advertisers have gotten a little more savvy. They have, you know, more interested in marketing folks that create actual targeted you know, they create targeted profile ells for their client base that they're looking to get by via their products. And really it can't, it doesn't worry people. Don't worry so much about what specific website you're on, as long as you can get to whatever audience you're actually looking for, which I think it's a pretty different way of thinking about it. Yeah, you can. I mean you can get so hyper specific with these, with the profiles that you build out and so incredibly targeted. I I see what you're talking about. Yeah, and there's so many layers of data that you can put onto anything to target everything, and I think that kind of place into creative which I'll talk a little about a little bit later. But you know, first one's kind of audience versus website. Second is really like guaranteed inventory versus non guaranteed. You know, if you're doing programmatic inventory, if you're buying your impressions via the programmatic channel, then it's never guarantee that you're going to have the same ad units available that you did before. If you're buying a specific audience and you're doing it across a multitude of sites, maybe one of those sites is where you really need to be, but it's hard to see that because you're running across all these different websites and that might not be there the next time you want to run a very similar campaign, because who knows if those impressions are going to be available, whereas if you're going direct and you are talking directly to a publisher, you know, CNN say Ay, CNN, I have, you know, two million impressions this month and I'm going to have two million pressons next month. See, and that says, okay, of course, yeah, we'll reserve of those two million and two million impressions of inventory and each quarter, no big deal.

Yeah, I think that that is a way retaining business tends to do with Roy, and a great way to have consistent Roy is to have consistency and where you're running your your ad units, and I think when you talk about having an audience and just talking about the programmatic channel, you lose that a little bit. So that's another difference. You know, a fixed CPM versus an ECPM, you know, any CPM in general, it's effective CPM, which is basically the average of at all the different CPM's that you're purchasing at, versus, you know, it's a little bit simpler when you go straight to a publisher and say, Hey, I'm interested in purchasing in entry at a ten dollar CPM and they say, okay, you know, ten dollars it is. So it's just the little nuances that I think kind of differentiate between nonprogrammatic and programmatic and those tend to have an influence in general on creative well, and it's you know, it's it's interesting, I think anytime you're talking about creative but also consistency. And you know, I mean it's just it's very difficult to, I think, blend those two things together when you think create if you think okay, you know, inspiration and you know who you know who knows exactly when this is going to be done or ready or how successful, but you also need that level of consistency because it's still a business. Yeah, no, and I think you know your bring up a very good point. You know, I don't think a lot of people talk about creative, you know, and consistency in the same sentence because it's usually I think I honestly, I don't hear the word consistency much in my business period. You know, it's usually like what's the shiny new object or what's this or that? You know, I don't hear the word, Hey, I would love to have consistent performance or, you know, consistent elements in my creative that that match. You know, I don't just don't think a lot of companies advertisers in general have those thoughts because things move so quick that it's hard to maybe take a step back and look at the macro elements when you're kind of tied in the daytoday a lot so that's an interesting point you bring up honestly well, and so I think that that leads us into this next question, is that you know, what is the main theme that you see playing out in the add creative portfolio space right now? You know, we've talked, you know, a decent amount about you know what is programmatic and you know how that possibly relates a little bit too creative. But I think programmatic, as I've said before, you know, kind of cause the strangulation of different inventory. But I think there's been another unintended consequence, and that's basically what we are talking about, which is the main thing, which is how display, video and native are all slowly but surely merging. You know, even for the company that I work for, specifically jetpack, you know, we were mainly interest even two years ago, you know,...

...we were mainly interested in desktop specific display creative and I think little by little, you know, the opportunity for direct sold business, which is where we do a lot of our work, has slowly gone away because of programmatic elements. So we've had to differentiate, we've had to, you know, kind of figure out ways to innovate and I think one of the main ways we're doing that other than coming up with as many innovative creative formats as we can and, you know, working with our clients to do so. But we're trying to find interesting ways to include video, we're trying to find interesting ways to include social and find new ways to include mobile for video and native mobile. You know, trying to find ways to take our technology and utilize other elements of what we do in order to create new revenue streams because, honestly, we need to do that. Advertisers and brands, especially for creative creatively speaking, advertisers and brands love that shiny new object. Now they they're usually interested in what the actual content of the ad is and they are the usually the ones providing that. But as to how any sort of bells and whistles or anything that's fun or interesting added to it, it tends to come a lot of times from, you know, third party elements such as myself. So, you know, trying to find new ways to innovate and come up with new revenue streams and still able to match that kind of, you know, Shiny object mindset, though a lot of advertisers have, specifically, especially when it comes to creative it's it and kind of necessitates us merging all these things and playing around in each one of those fields. It's tough slunting it at times. And if you're not innovative and if you're not trying to push in different areas and, you know, come with different native elements, which is which are elements that look like whatever. It's an AGG unit that looks like the page around it or the content around it, or coming up with different ways to utilize videos, such as outstream formats or formats that are literally inside the content, and coming up with new ways to give publishers revenue streams. You, we have to be doing that. We have to be servicing our clients, and you know, that's kind of one of the things that Programmatica is forced out of a lot of the companies that share a similar position to mine. Okay, well, so, Jeremy, we, I mean we've delved into sort of standard versus non standard, digital add creative programmatic versus non programmatic. We've talked about marrying display, native video other elements. So let's taking this all together. Why does any of this matter? What is the lesson that we're leaving our listeners with today? You know, I think that. It's so funny because when you think of that just the the you know, marrying you know or talking about display inventory or add creative, it...

...seems like such a tiny little thing right. It seems like like who cares, like what does it matter? But you know, it's really interesting because I've in my opinion, and I think if you'll talk to most regular people who utilize the any sort of digital screen, whether it's mobile, tablet, desktop, Ott over the top boxes like Roku or xbox or anything like that, the add element in any of those platforms affects the user greatly. Not only are they looking at the ad unit as actual creative that are extremely as actual content, as something that they're consuming, but if you have bad add content or a bad add experience on your website or whatever digital platform you're looking at, it affects the user greatly. If you have bad add creative that breaks your site and the user can't consume the content, that's a big deal. If you have add creative that's super interruptive and your editorial doesn't really match with that and it's something where the users have to concentrate on whatever they're reading and you have a super interruptive ad unit. That's not good. If you have the most boring add creative, which at this point I can tell you a lot of the the potential clients that I see really do. If you have boring add creative, it's you're almost missing an element to your site, because if you had interesting add creative, not only could you be making money, but the users would appreciate it too, because again, they view it as another sort of content that they have to actually consume. And you know, whether it's display at creative, whether it's finding different and interesting ways to utilize video, the output of all these different medium debt media endeavors of so many people, you know the people that were talking about, you know, utilizing all the different data, dayparting, negotiating all the different prices, getting all the add creative setup. The end out point of all of that is in add creative being shown to the user, which is hopefully the right user, at the endpoint of all that work. So if it's not up to par, then the user all that work is definitely going to be for nothing. So, you know, I find it to be a really interesting topic and one that, honestly, I think people don't think a lot about. I think people put not that much investment in the main publishers, the big boys, the tier one a guys. Tell you about major cable coming via Cop Turner and BC, you know, the major broadcasters, CBS. Those guys are just now starting to figure out that they need to put some, you know, a more effort and investment and and more kind of just effort behind at creative. They're creating internal teams, talking to different vendors. But...

...the future relationship of us as the media industry with the user base of whatever country you're trying to fit, you know, run media in the future of our relationship depends on us finding innovative and fun ways to show our ads to the users. Because, you know, as I'm sure a lot of people in media read, you know, pay walls are coming up, viewability becomes more important, add fraud blocking and just add blocking in general, like publishers having their ads block. These are all things that are effects of having the same crap. Creative ears. You know, people got sick and tired of viewing the same crap, so they started to innovate on how to not have to view it and consume that content. And here we sit. So I think it's really important. I obviously I'm a little pious but Um, you know, as you could see, there's a there's usually a lot to talk about what it comes to a creative so absolutely well and and, Jeremy, no one can certainly doubt your passion and expertise for you know what we're talking about today. And if any of our listeners are interested in following up, they want to know more about, you know, digital add creative and a programmatic world. They want to know more about jet pack. They want connect with you. What's the best way for them to go about doing that? By emails, probably the best way. My email address is Jeremy at jet pack donet. Super, super simple. We had jet to jet PACKCOM for many years, but people started calling and asking us about how to get actual jet packs, so we went jet packed down. But yeah, no, we certainly are ready willing and able to help anybody with any of their creative sub at creative issues or questions or problems. And Yeah, we're certainly here to help. That's fantastic, Jeremy, thank you again so much for your time. It was a real pleasure having you on the show today. You as well man. Thanks so much for having me again. Hopefully this was this time wasn't was a little bit more coherent them this I've missed time. This time was perfect, and again I you know. I'd also like to say again congratulations on your impending nuptuals. That's fantastic also. I appreciate that. Man, thanks so much, and I'm glad things in Florida are a little bit better than they would they were last week. Yeah, thank you. Thank you all right, have a good lat jock. You do. If you're a BEDB marketer, we want to feature you on sites like the Huffington post social media examiner and chief marketer. Every week we send that a question related to be to be marketing. We use the responses to those questions to feel the content we write for really popular websites. So head over to sweet fish Mediacom slash questions and sign up today. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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