544: Digital Ad Creative in a Programmatic World w/ Jeremy Carlin

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Jeremy Carlin, VP of Business Development at Jetpack.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-carlin-05942420/

Are you struggling to come up withoriginal content weekend and week out? Start a podcast, interview your ideal clients, let them talk about what they care about most, and never run outof content ideas again. Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening tothe BAB growth show, a podcast dedicated to help you be to be executivesachieve explosive growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. I'm James Carberry and I'm Jonathan Green. Let's get into the show. Welcome back to the be to be growthshow. Today we are joined by Jeremy Carlin. Jeremy is the vice presidentof business development at jet pack. Jeremy, welcome to the show. Thanks somuch for having me, Jeremy. It's a pleasure to have you onthe show. We actually Jeremy and I just talked for like half an hourbefore we started recording. It was an amazing conversation. We were just sortof catching back up on all the stuff that's been going on. I'm doinga new Halloween horror nights thing here in Orlando. Jeremy was telling me abouthow he recently got engaged and is, you know, now in sort ofwedding planning mode. So that's fantastic, Jeremy. We are officially going tobe talking today, though, about digital ad creative in a programmatic world andI'm thrilled to have you unpack that for our listeners. But before we do, but you can tell us a little about what you and the jet packteam are up to these days. Certainly so. Jet Pack digital has beenaround for over eight years at this point, started by three men who come fromthe publisher world and started a publisher that at the time was called buzzmedia. That eventually became spin media and then spin media, I think,was sunseted this year. Actually, so it was. It was around fora while, but the founders had been kind of done with that for awhile. So basically, when they left they're kind of publishing background, theykind of started jet pack as a response to all the gaps that they hadseen in the marketplace, specifically as it was as it relates to add creative. So add creative kind of became our signal call. We do it viaa few different service models, including managed service. That has been our breadand butter for the entire length of time that we've been around. That's havingour clients send us any sort of assets, photos, images, and then wekind of jumble that all together and put out a specific format or away for the actual add creative to be viewed and a fun or different way. And we do that we have not only do we do that by amanaged service where we're doing the kind of product building, and then we alsohave a self service portal where we have our clients go in and build itthemselves. Tends to be a little bit more cost efficient, and we're actuallyputting out our self service tool into the...

...market within the next week. Sowe're super excited about that big product launch shot coming. And Yeah, nowwe're we definitely have some really cool things to come. We have been aroundfor a while, but I think we're starting to make a splash these daysbecause they just aren't that many people who do what we do anymore, whichis focus on the publishing environment, you know, content creators, aggregators,and provide those folks with genuine and in innovative creative across multiple digital screens.Well, it's fantastic. We're looking forward to seeing what you guys are cookingup in the very near future, and today we are going to be.Like I said, we're talking about digital add creative in a programmatic world.That feels like a very dense sentence, Jeremy, let's help me help.Yeah, help me unpacked at a little bit for our listeners. Certainly so, programmatic for any folks that deal in the advertising world, specifically digital,but starting to be other elements as well. Anyone who deals in the media environmenthas heard of the term programmatic. For folks that have not, basicallyit's an automation of the way ADS are bought and sold through digital channels andbasically it is created. It comes first. There's a in order to scale something, you need to have a standard for it. Right, they're there'sa standard way in which everyone either does whatever you're doing that in and thatway. Since everyone's doing it the same way, then you can grow itand more people can do it the same way. Blah, Blah Blah.Right. So by creating basically standard add sizes years and years ago, mostof the time, I think the first standard ad sizes were put together bya few different companies, Google being one of them, and basically they createdthese different standard add sizes and by doing so over the years and automating thosedifferent standard add sizes, it's brought an exchanged like environment to digital media andthat has had a whole range of different consequences, including on you know whatwe're going to talk about today, which is add creative. Okay, andI do, and you sort of this this first question I wanted to ask. I mean it almost feels like you're already getting into it. Is Youknow, what is standard media? How does that fit into the media landscape, you know, especially when we are talking about programmatic automated buying? Certainlyand a good question. So the first thing I'll say is that programmatic hasbasically shifted the way that that folks really by purchase. Think about whatever ithas to do with ads. Now that is very specific to add creative because, as I mentioned, there's these different standard sizes. For desktop, it'sit's usually pixels, so it's a hundred...

...sixty by six, hundred, threehundred by two fifty and seven twenty eight by ninety. Again, if you'rein digital media, this is old hat to you. Mobile Three hundred andtwenty by fifty. So we've scale at this point all the major publishers online. Right, sell out via direct means much lower than it used to be, but let's just say thirty percent. So let's say you're a publisher andyou sell out thirty percent of your inventory. What are you going to do withthat other seventy percent, which is mostly made up of the the sizesthat I just spoke about? You're going to send it out to other peopleor give it to different exchanges and different auction buying sites so that other peoplecan buy and service your inventory and pay you to get on your site.Because that's what that's what it is, right, impressions iballs. That's whatour whole business is about. So, because programmatic is, you know,some technology focused and you know it's supposed to be about automated buying. Itwas really supposed to bring all this efficiency for time and and money. Andyou know, since all this stuff has been you know, you don't haveto email another eight to find out about the inventory details and see if whatkind of budget requirements they have and all these different things that go into,you know, doing an RFP and getting a response and and actually doing business. Programmatic was supposed to cut all that stuff out. So it was supposedto be much cheaper and you're supposed to have be able to do more withless people and all that, all that jazz, and unfortunately it really hasn'tgotten a gone that way. In fact, prices and programmatic platforms tend to beanywhere from ten to twenty percent higher than direct sold inventory. It's actuallycheaper to go through direct soul than not go through these automated channels. Forwhat we're talking about today, creative wise, programmatic is really strangled what we cando on a day to day basis for most creative endeavors. I sawa figure this week that said fifty percent of display inventory in Europe is programmaticat this point. So that means that fifty percent of the inventory is spreadout between the basically these four side the four sizes that I mentioned earlier.So that's kind of strangled on how digital content and and add creative have kindof meshed. It's hard to do more high impact, funner, higher andinnovative creative if everything's one standard size, and that basically is caused the strangulationof any sort of creativity in the market place and unfortunately that's a problem.You know, that's not so that's not something that's good for publishers, that'snot good for advertisers and certainly not good for users. So yeah, soall right then, Jeremy, let me let me follow up that question withanother one. And then how would you say that folks are should differentiate theirnonprogrammatic and their programmatic inventory? I mean,...

I think there's just ways in whichthey're different in general. I mean, obviously the easiest way to determine whichis which is, did you go on a platform and purchase the inventory? And and if you didn't, then you're not doing your programmatically. Ifyou made a call or set an email to an a and talked to himthat way, odds are it's direct. Now the programmatic channel has that aswell. It's not completely devoid of, you know, having to make allthose phone calls, right, the human the human element. You can't.You can't get rid of it entirely and you definitely cannot. In general,I think there's a few ways in which programmatic and nonprogrammatic kind of play oneanother. You know, I would say the first one, which has beena had a profound impact, is that most advertisers are searcher, searching foraudiences whereas earlier they had been searching for different and different websites specifically. SoI think in the RPS of the past, which in my old days within Iwas a media buyer all those years ago, basically, you know,I would send I have different buckets and I'd say, okay, I havethis lifestyle product, you know, or something. I want to be playingmy add units on a lifestyle site. So I would reach out to theas many different lifestyle sites as I thought I needed to and see what theycould give me and all that good stuff. That nowadays have changed, I think, you know, advertisers have gotten a little more savvy. They have, you know, more interested in marketing folks that create actual targeted you know, they create targeted profile ells for their client base that they're looking to getby via their products. And really it can't, it doesn't worry people.Don't worry so much about what specific website you're on, as long as youcan get to whatever audience you're actually looking for, which I think it's apretty different way of thinking about it. Yeah, you can. I meanyou can get so hyper specific with these, with the profiles that you build outand so incredibly targeted. I I see what you're talking about. Yeah, and there's so many layers of data that you can put onto anything totarget everything, and I think that kind of place into creative which I'll talka little about a little bit later. But you know, first one's kindof audience versus website. Second is really like guaranteed inventory versus non guaranteed.You know, if you're doing programmatic inventory, if you're buying your impressions via theprogrammatic channel, then it's never guarantee that you're going to have the samead units available that you did before. If you're buying a specific audience andyou're doing it across a multitude of sites, maybe one of those sites is whereyou really need to be, but it's hard to see that because you'rerunning across all these different websites and that might not be there the next timeyou want to run a very similar campaign, because who knows if those impressions aregoing to be available, whereas if you're going direct and you are talkingdirectly to a publisher, you know, CNN say Ay, CNN, Ihave, you know, two million impressions this month and I'm going to havetwo million pressons next month. See, and that says, okay, ofcourse, yeah, we'll reserve of those two million and two million impressions ofinventory and each quarter, no big deal.

Yeah, I think that that isa way retaining business tends to do with Roy, and a great wayto have consistent Roy is to have consistency and where you're running your your adunits, and I think when you talk about having an audience and just talkingabout the programmatic channel, you lose that a little bit. So that's anotherdifference. You know, a fixed CPM versus an ECPM, you know,any CPM in general, it's effective CPM, which is basically the average of atall the different CPM's that you're purchasing at, versus, you know,it's a little bit simpler when you go straight to a publisher and say,Hey, I'm interested in purchasing in entry at a ten dollar CPM and theysay, okay, you know, ten dollars it is. So it's justthe little nuances that I think kind of differentiate between nonprogrammatic and programmatic and thosetend to have an influence in general on creative well, and it's you know, it's it's interesting, I think anytime you're talking about creative but also consistency. And you know, I mean it's just it's very difficult to, Ithink, blend those two things together when you think create if you think okay, you know, inspiration and you know who you know who knows exactly whenthis is going to be done or ready or how successful, but you alsoneed that level of consistency because it's still a business. Yeah, no,and I think you know your bring up a very good point. You know, I don't think a lot of people talk about creative, you know,and consistency in the same sentence because it's usually I think I honestly, Idon't hear the word consistency much in my business period. You know, it'susually like what's the shiny new object or what's this or that? You know, I don't hear the word, Hey, I would love to have consistent performanceor, you know, consistent elements in my creative that that match.You know, I don't just don't think a lot of companies advertisers in generalhave those thoughts because things move so quick that it's hard to maybe take astep back and look at the macro elements when you're kind of tied in thedaytoday a lot so that's an interesting point you bring up honestly well, andso I think that that leads us into this next question, is that youknow, what is the main theme that you see playing out in the addcreative portfolio space right now? You know, we've talked, you know, adecent amount about you know what is programmatic and you know how that possiblyrelates a little bit too creative. But I think programmatic, as I've saidbefore, you know, kind of cause the strangulation of different inventory. ButI think there's been another unintended consequence, and that's basically what we are talkingabout, which is the main thing, which is how display, video andnative are all slowly but surely merging. You know, even for the companythat I work for, specifically jetpack, you know, we were mainly interesteven two years ago, you know,...

...we were mainly interested in desktop specificdisplay creative and I think little by little, you know, the opportunity for directsold business, which is where we do a lot of our work,has slowly gone away because of programmatic elements. So we've had to differentiate, we'vehad to, you know, kind of figure out ways to innovate andI think one of the main ways we're doing that other than coming up withas many innovative creative formats as we can and, you know, working withour clients to do so. But we're trying to find interesting ways to includevideo, we're trying to find interesting ways to include social and find new waysto include mobile for video and native mobile. You know, trying to find waysto take our technology and utilize other elements of what we do in orderto create new revenue streams because, honestly, we need to do that. Advertisersand brands, especially for creative creatively speaking, advertisers and brands love thatshiny new object. Now they they're usually interested in what the actual content ofthe ad is and they are the usually the ones providing that. But asto how any sort of bells and whistles or anything that's fun or interesting addedto it, it tends to come a lot of times from, you know, third party elements such as myself. So, you know, trying tofind new ways to innovate and come up with new revenue streams and still ableto match that kind of, you know, Shiny object mindset, though a lotof advertisers have, specifically, especially when it comes to creative it's itand kind of necessitates us merging all these things and playing around in each oneof those fields. It's tough slunting it at times. And if you're notinnovative and if you're not trying to push in different areas and, you know, come with different native elements, which is which are elements that look likewhatever. It's an AGG unit that looks like the page around it or thecontent around it, or coming up with different ways to utilize videos, suchas outstream formats or formats that are literally inside the content, and coming upwith new ways to give publishers revenue streams. You, we have to be doingthat. We have to be servicing our clients, and you know,that's kind of one of the things that Programmatica is forced out of a lotof the companies that share a similar position to mine. Okay, well,so, Jeremy, we, I mean we've delved into sort of standard versusnon standard, digital add creative programmatic versus non programmatic. We've talked about marryingdisplay, native video other elements. So let's taking this all together. Whydoes any of this matter? What is the lesson that we're leaving our listenerswith today? You know, I think that. It's so funny because whenyou think of that just the the you know, marrying you know or talkingabout display inventory or add creative, it...

...seems like such a tiny little thingright. It seems like like who cares, like what does it matter? Butyou know, it's really interesting because I've in my opinion, and Ithink if you'll talk to most regular people who utilize the any sort of digitalscreen, whether it's mobile, tablet, desktop, Ott over the top boxeslike Roku or xbox or anything like that, the add element in any of thoseplatforms affects the user greatly. Not only are they looking at the adunit as actual creative that are extremely as actual content, as something that they'reconsuming, but if you have bad add content or a bad add experience onyour website or whatever digital platform you're looking at, it affects the user greatly. If you have bad add creative that breaks your site and the user can'tconsume the content, that's a big deal. If you have add creative that's superinterruptive and your editorial doesn't really match with that and it's something where theusers have to concentrate on whatever they're reading and you have a super interruptive adunit. That's not good. If you have the most boring add creative,which at this point I can tell you a lot of the the potential clientsthat I see really do. If you have boring add creative, it's you'realmost missing an element to your site, because if you had interesting add creative, not only could you be making money, but the users would appreciate it too, because again, they view it as another sort of content that theyhave to actually consume. And you know, whether it's display at creative, whetherit's finding different and interesting ways to utilize video, the output of allthese different medium debt media endeavors of so many people, you know the peoplethat were talking about, you know, utilizing all the different data, dayparting, negotiating all the different prices, getting all the add creative setup. Theend out point of all of that is in add creative being shown to theuser, which is hopefully the right user, at the endpoint of all that work. So if it's not up to par, then the user all thatwork is definitely going to be for nothing. So, you know, I findit to be a really interesting topic and one that, honestly, Ithink people don't think a lot about. I think people put not that muchinvestment in the main publishers, the big boys, the tier one a guys. Tell you about major cable coming via Cop Turner and BC, you know, the major broadcasters, CBS. Those guys are just now starting to figureout that they need to put some, you know, a more effort andinvestment and and more kind of just effort behind at creative. They're creating internalteams, talking to different vendors. But...

...the future relationship of us as themedia industry with the user base of whatever country you're trying to fit, youknow, run media in the future of our relationship depends on us finding innovativeand fun ways to show our ads to the users. Because, you know, as I'm sure a lot of people in media read, you know,pay walls are coming up, viewability becomes more important, add fraud blocking andjust add blocking in general, like publishers having their ads block. These areall things that are effects of having the same crap. Creative ears. Youknow, people got sick and tired of viewing the same crap, so theystarted to innovate on how to not have to view it and consume that content. And here we sit. So I think it's really important. I obviouslyI'm a little pious but Um, you know, as you could see,there's a there's usually a lot to talk about what it comes to a creativeso absolutely well and and, Jeremy, no one can certainly doubt your passionand expertise for you know what we're talking about today. And if any ofour listeners are interested in following up, they want to know more about,you know, digital add creative and a programmatic world. They want to knowmore about jet pack. They want connect with you. What's the best wayfor them to go about doing that? By emails, probably the best way. My email address is Jeremy at jet pack donet. Super, super simple. We had jet to jet PACKCOM for many years, but people started callingand asking us about how to get actual jet packs, so we went jetpacked down. But yeah, no, we certainly are ready willing and ableto help anybody with any of their creative sub at creative issues or questions orproblems. And Yeah, we're certainly here to help. That's fantastic, Jeremy, thank you again so much for your time. It was a real pleasurehaving you on the show today. You as well man. Thanks so muchfor having me again. Hopefully this was this time wasn't was a little bitmore coherent them this I've missed time. This time was perfect, and againI you know. I'd also like to say again congratulations on your impending nuptuals. That's fantastic also. I appreciate that. Man, thanks so much, andI'm glad things in Florida are a little bit better than they would theywere last week. Yeah, thank you. Thank you all right, have agood lat jock. You do. If you're a BEDB marketer, wewant to feature you on sites like the Huffington post social media examiner and chiefmarketer. Every week we send that a question related to be to be marketing. We use the responses to those questions to feel the content we write forreally popular websites. So head over to sweet fish Mediacom slash questions and signup today. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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