540: How to Hire, Fire, and Create an Amazing Team Culture w/ Chris Mefford

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Chris Mefford, Chief Marketing Officer at The Rock Church.

podcast link: http://chrismefford.com/podcast/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-mefford-8049a42/

Looking for a guaranteed way to createcontent that resonates with your Audience Star, U Poncast Interview YourIdeal Client and let them choose the topic of the interview, because, ifyour ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good chance, the rest of youraudience will care about. It too, learn more at sweetfish media, dtcom, you're, listening to the B Tob groteshow pod cast dedicated to helping be to B executives, Achet Explosive Groan,whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources.You've come to the right place, I'm Jonathan Green and I'm James Carbary.Let's get it into the show Welgo back to the bee to be groth show.Today we are joined by Chris MEFHORD. Chris is the former VP of events atRamsey. He is the current SM over the Rock Church in San Diego. He is theauthor of hiring and firing not to mention the host of the four leaders ina hurry. POD gast Chris. Welcome to the show e I'm glad to be here. Thanks forhaving me with that sort of resume and breaknect schedule, you've got to behaving. I am so thrilled that you were able to carve a little time out to tojoin us here on the bee, to be growth, show today so sincerely. Thank you forthat and we're going to be talking today about something I think it's verycool, how to hire fire and create an amazing team culture, and I think thatthis is going to be an episode that Um or our listener sort of across theboarder going to get a lot of value out of because we do of course have a lotof leaders in our audience in in one capacity or another. So I am excited toto sort of talk about today's topic, but before we get into that crest,maybe you can tell us and our listeneris a little about what you justhave't been out to lately. Well, Yo know I've written a book, so that'staken a lot of my time but uh I like...

...helping opreners, I like helpingleaders and show individual entrepreneurs rather how to leverstheir ability to communicate and get promoted and make money. You know, Ifeel, like a lot of people h, put so much emphasis on their ability tomanage the analytical side of life that they ignore sort of the stoffskills,and so that's something that I've excelled at been blessed at.Fortunately, and I think a lot of people don't realize how much of aninfluence that plays and their ability to get promoted and make more money,and so I like helping people, do that and that's Kindof what I've been doinglately in conjunctione with my day job, if you will yeah well, you know I. Iknow I certainly like making more money. I would imagine people listening alsolike making more money. So I think that again this is going to be a greatepisode, I'm going to just Gotd to let you take it away. I mean, I think youyou had some stories to to kick things off with yeah I'll, tell Yo. You knowthank Othinthe Um. One of the things I get asked a lotabout is hey. Why hiring hy firn? Why Amazing Team Culture Etctera, and Ialways reply with this. If every time I've asked any audience, I've spoken toanybody, hove coached anybody, H've consultant with corporation wise, heywhat kind of company do you want to have? What kind of team members youwant to hire? They always tell me the same thing. We want an amazing team, weWen an amazing culture. We went great people rock stars to Worke with day andday out, and I think to myself and laugh how many of you think you havethat and so almost exclusively one hundred percent of the people. I talkto and work with, want that. Why do so few organizations actually have it, andI think it's because it comes down to sort of behavioral change. Common Senseis easy to kind of spout. We want this great stuff. You know I worke for DaRamsey and we made a whole business on live on less than you make. That soundsreal simple, and so you sort of understand that money has someemotional aspects to it. Money has this desire of maturity and withholding someof the things you want right now. Um Jenni Craig made a whole industry onthis on consumless calories than you...

...burn. That seems easy to say and verydifficult to enact, and I believe that when it comes to work, culture andcommunication, the same thing as it play, you know a lot of people say wehave this mission, but they can't figure out how to sort of get the shipgoing, and I believe it has everything to do with the fact that there is thesense that people want to be great, but they on have never seen it happen andso they're confused ot how to get there or two. They settle for Good Jimcollenor book good to great, where he said. Good is the enemy of great andwhat he really means there is that we settle for good. We think that's great,we don't really know what great looks like. Sometimes sometimes we do, butwe're just willing to settle, because to get to great you have to work hard.Sometimes you have to be willing to take some flak and take the heat Umfrom the team, because they can't necessarily see the vovision of whereyou're headed or what this project needs to be and and how to turn it inand what it needs to look like, and so that becomes difficult and peoplestruggle. With that, I like to tell a story of you know: I'm a big collegefootball fan and I grew up just outside of Columbus Whil. I was I'm a big, ahostake fan. I hope that doesn't turn off Hrigo I'll use nicssaving as well.It's another great example, but you take urban mier. You Take Nikaven. Bothof these coaches won e national title in their second year at theiruniversity, and so what stings out to me there is that they came in toreplace a coach, a leader who was so bad that he got fired or got asked toleave and yet a year or two later they're winning the nationalchampionship, essentially with somebody else's team, and so what was it thatthey were able to do? How were they able to motivate? What did theyexperience that the other coaches, and so many other you know, collegefootball cloaches out there cant achieve and I believe, they've seen,greatness, dey've achieved greatness and they can come in and tell peopletrust me. I can take either trust me. Things can be different. Trust me. Thisprocess works, but also, I think they...

...stay in. I the gap and say we're notcompromising here. You may have done that in the past and compromise, but wewill not be doing that any longer. That will not take us to greatness and Ifeel like a lot of companies. A lot of individuals. Corporations. That's wherethey fall flat, is they're willing to compromise on the core values, thethings that make them successful. So Jonathan, essentially what happens? IsPeople settle for the good lifestyle? It's essentially you could transplantthat word good and just put easy. I'm okay with the good lifestyle, I'm okaywith the easy lifestyle 'cause this stuff to get to great is hard. You know.Sometimes people want to hire people really fast 'cause, they have positions,they need to fill so they hire them fast and then the person comes in andthey're not what they presented to be they're, not really working out. It'sfrustrating you have to start all over and you say yourself whether the easyroute was to hire somebody quick. The hard rot was to take your time. Thehard rout was to put him through five or six different interview processes.The easy row was to add somebody in quickly to kind of help, stop the gapor stop the the bleeding. If you will- and it never takes you to greatness itsimply never works. People need to line up with your culture eoleve do theybelieve similar to you? Do they believe in what you're selling what you'redoing what your services you're offering, and so, when you bring peopleonto the team that don't have a mission and vision and passion for what you doand what they do every day, you're not going to be great you're not going tobuild a team who loves working hard and working alongside one another mm. Well,and so Chris, I mean just sort of interject e quickly, because I've reada little about about your message and you're sort of here, taking the stancethat you know with a little bit more time and efforts and and sort ofwaiting until you find that that perfect fit throw more interviews alonger process, you can, you can find...

...the right people, but you've also, Ithink, made the point that know being a perfectionist can alsokill. Leadership. Are Those two ideas in in opposition to one another or or d?CAN THEY COEXIST? Well, I think that's, probably the the MISNOMER is a lot oftimes. We'l say: Oh, my boss wants me, be perfect, expect to be perfect andthe way I would translatit is Ha Onin it to be perfect. But I want you to beexcellent. You know to keep with our our football metaphor. Is I want you tokeep trying to move the ball forward? Sometimes you get tackled behind alinest crimmage. Sometimes you, you fell patinally Um, it's only good for acouple of yards O, but that's okay. Where I got frustrated was you weretrying to run the ball left and right over and over again, meaning that weeremaking the same mistakes over and over again, and so I wasn't frustrated withyou because you're not perfect, I'm Presta with you, because you make themistakes that aren't advancing as foorward, I'm okay with you taking somerisk as long as it was for the right reasons. You know I'm never going to beupset that you made a call to move this program to the backburner and push thisone ahead, because you thought it would make us more money, faster right, who's,going to argue that withthout logic, but sometime the logic, kids, I'm notgoing to take any action, I'm paralyzed by fear Um, because I'm afraid, if I'mnot perfect Um, I won't get ahead. You know set Goden in his book Lynchpen. Hesaid if you ask a leader what kind of team member they wont they often say. Ijust want someone who shows up on time, someone who doesn't cause any drama andsomeone who just does their job and he said, look around. None of those peopleget promoted right. Those are the safe people. Thay are going back and rightthat are afraid, they're just expecting perfection from themselves and thinkthat their leaders are expecting perfection. No, we want excellence. Wewant you to work hard, want you to try hard, want you to help this advance. Imean imagine this. If you walked into your leader's office, your boss'soffice and you said: Hey how to help you win in the position. I'm in yourboss should be blown away right, but no...

...one ever askd that you've over hear youwork really really hard doing. What you think is important without reallyhaving a conversation about what helps your your boss, your leader, advance,and so people get stuck in these rots in these positions, and they wonder why,when they're working so hard noone notices, it's 'cause you're, neverdoing anything that helps the team advance the ball, you're opstentimes,doing what you think is important and not what the team does yeah. I likethat, and and certainly coming back to that idea of perfection versusexcellence, which is more important, so Chris, let's Lk, let's Pivit a littlebit and talk about okay, so you know hiring and firing effectively likewhere how do you find these people and what does that process look like foryou? Well, I tell you. I wish there was a secret process. Jonatan he reality is.There is no secret process, there never was there's only a thorough process andthat's not a copout. The reality is if someone is difficult to hire. Thatmeans that th you've put in the right amount of effort on to the team, and soyou know where I used to work. We had a really long hiring process, we called U,we did a thorough vetting and it didn't include background checks and stuff. Wereally just wanted to get to know you what you were like the first interview.Usually people are nervous, either you're never going to meet the truepersonality in the first or even sometimes, this second or thirdinterviews I like to switch it up or we in a conference room et. Stick: A Walk:Let's go to the coffee shop Um! You know and asked questions that wereoutside the box kind of complex. You know don't tell me about your shrengths.Tell me about when you use your strengts. What's the biggest failure vehad what's the biggest disappointment, you've had tell me about the time youwere broken walking through the process. It took you to sort of come to theseconclusions. Things like that they kinda go much much deeper and I like tokind of throw the experience into a little bit more of a stressful place,because if the role you're going to take on is going to be stressful, Iwant to see how you react and stressful environments, and sometimes aninterview can be a very stressful...

...environment. You know when it comes togreat culture. I think probably people misunderstand Um, hiring and firing inthe sense of Yo know you're, not necessarily looking for the rightplayers or you're looking for the riht players rather, but the most expensiveteam embers aren't easuly the ones you pay the most they're, the people thatare the least productive, and so you have people in the team whoaren't productive they're, not going to help you achieve great things, they'renot going to help you build great culture. They're not going TA, bepassionate. You know, I will say: Apathy makes excuses, but passion findsaway. Here's an example: Yeah we'll talk back about Steve Jobs or look backat see jobs and you W. let's go to itunes. Ituns is such a normal part ofall our lives. Today, everybody has it most. All computers come with it, andyou have to ask yourself how, as Steve Jobs, able to convince the musicindustry who pretty much had given up hope, they would ever make money again,because everyone was going to steal music forever. How was he able toconvince them to give him the ability, the authorityand the capacity to price things out and set this up and a way that she canmake them be successful with once again and if he didn't have the passion to dothat, he would have never pulled that off. Seem jobs was smart and he wasinnovative, but he had passion when you get a team around you that has thatpassion for what you're doing in the culture you want to create and theservices you provide or the products you provide. You can do amazing thingsand that's what these football coaches ave found and they get 'em on board andth y. They say: Hey Het's find ta passion an let's all get on the samemission. When you have people in the team who are mixed up, they don't careabout it. They've just started a report in day and a day out for their job,you're, never going to achieve greatness well and- and I think, that'ssort of a beautiful saigway, because I do want to at least touch on this ideaof okay. You know how how to fire I mean it is. It is a fact of ofleadership t so for some people they...

...will do anything that they can do toavoid firing someone. What is what dis that process look like to you, Chris?Well I'll. Tell you one thing when you fire someone there's more at stake thanjust removing somebody from the team m first office should never be a surprise.No one should ever be surprised because, if it's a surprise, you've done a poorjob as a leader of communicating what the expectations are, meaning, if I know exactly what I'msupposed to do, what I'm supposed to achieve and I've been having regularcommunication with my team or my leadership and we're not doing it, andwe we don't have a good reason for it. Why should I ever be surprised hat? Igot let go if there are certain nonnegotiable things in the company,what we call core values that we don't ever compromise on and I violate one ofthose I go and you need to let your team know that those principales can'tbe violated, because that's what makes you special, those are the coor thingsand so first off when you fire someone, it never should be a surprised. Second,you need to look around at the team because oftentimes how you handle thissituation with removing somebody from the team, the rest of the team islooking at because they are saying how will I be treated if this ever happensto me, and so you need to make your team feel safe, like hey w R, we justdon't cut people loose willin nely, because I didn't like the the colorshirt that they had on today. That's not how we do this whole process, and so I want youto feel safe over here, knowing that when we remove somebody from the team,we did it in a way that was honorable, respectful and and and didn't have kindof a lack of integrity. And you can trust us that, if God forbid somethingwere to happen over here with you, which we don't ever want to do, wedon't ever want to have you leave the team, but if it does we'll treat youwith the same love or respect, and so firing is about removing somebody fromthe team, but also it's about the team itself, and I think a lot ofcorporations or companies ignore that...

...aspect of it and they get themselvessort of in this environment where people are ancy and there's a highanxiety because they're not quite sure what what trigger is the point wheresomeone might get removed, and so it's a fail. Failure to lack and a lack ofcommunication that really drives hat home. MHM Yeah Well- and I think I youknow, I read something that you had youhad written about- that firing alsoshould never give you. It should never be this sense, O of empowerment orcontrol right yeah, that's bad, because then your team is afraid of you and sothey're not really going to work with you out of a sense of passion anddesire to accomplish great things together. They're going to do, IB'cause they're, afraid of you and people who have teams that are afraidof them. What I have seen and discovered is when that leader falls,they fall hard and they fell fast. You so you might be able to bully your teamand make your team fearful B. If the time are ever come and you neede them to do something for you o, you need tocount on them. Ho'll, probably not see that happen. Yeah well course. We've Imean we've gotten o cover so much incredible content during thisinterview talking about some of the things that the quality es o make foran effective leader how to how to start finding the right team how toeventually you know if it if it comes to it, how to let those those membersof your team go what makes for a successful company colture there's somuch content. I know you are and obvious you're, obviously an expert inthis, so if any in anyone in our audience wants to connect with youafter the show they want to find out more about today's episode, they wantto find out more about what you and your team at the Rock Church are up to.They just want to reach out and say hi. What's the best way for them to goabout doing that? Well, they can't go to my website CHRISTMEFOR DT com.Actually, if they go to Christmepor DOT COM, SLA b, to B with a podcast they'llkinda see your your stuff there, but they can download the book h. They candownload the Kendal they can. I get the audiobook as well. It's like a fiftydollar value, that's on Amazon that...

...they get for free by just registeringI'll, give it to your Po castless nerves, because I'm not doing this likeI. Obviously I have a day job, I'm doing this 'cause. I want to see othercompanies hand people succeed if they want to sign up for some coaching, I'mhappy to do that as well. Um for a free lesson and- and it's a very valuableessand, it's not a Cheepi where we don't discuss anything like. I reallywant to help people, and so that's my goal and my passion in life, and I wantto see people succeed and I get excited when I'm able to do that: Wa, fantasticand and again for anyone listening check out four leaders in a hurry pod casttoasted by Chris Chris. Thank you againt. So much for your time today wasan absolute pleasure having you on the shel. Thank you, John Han. If you've been getting value from thispodcast, you can help us reach more people by reviewing the show on Ituneshereis how you can leave a review in less than a minute open your pod castout and tap the search igon in the bottom rad corner type in fee o bgrowth then select our shol once you're, there tap the reviews to have and tellus what you think of the show. These reviews help us out of time. Thank youso much for listening until next time.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (1609)