533: How to Leverage Digital Influence to Create Human Connection w/ David Fisher

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to David Fisher, Author of Hyper-Connected Selling.

To stay connected with David, click here.

... Your brand? Start a podcast, invite your industries thought leaders to be guests on your show and start reaping the benefits of having a network full of industry influencers? Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to the be tob growth show, a podcast dedicated to helping be to be executives achieve explosive growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. I'm Jonathan Green and I'm James Carberry. Let's get it into the show. Welcome back to the baby growth show. We are here today with David Fisher. He is the author of hyper connected selling. David, how you doing today? I am living the dream. Sorry to steal that from you, but I'm in that club too. I and then that club as well. David, I'm really excited to chat with you today. I heard you on drew's podcast, I guess, a couple weeks ago, and I'm a huge fan of his podcast for for agency owners and excited to dive into our own little interview talking about your latest book, hyper connected selling. Before we get into it, can you tell our listeners, David, a little bit about your background and what made you want to write hyperconnected selling? Sure, I run a professional development firm called Rock Star Consulting and doing that for about twelve years, working with entrepreneurs and small business owners and salespeople, and this is actually my seventh book and I've always written about relationship building and networking and it was a very natural progression to look at how relationships are being built in this highly connected world and it was very obvious that people needed to look more closely at how they can actually take the tools of human...

...relationships in the offline world, put them into the online world and and be more effective and be more efficient with what they were doing. So that was kind of the Genesis of the book. I love it. I love it and seven, the fact that you've written seven books. Man, I I I've been having a bear of a time trying to get one out of me. It's like a marathon. You run want right one and you're like this is horrible, but then you get finish you're like, I could do it again. You're a glutton for punishment, pretty much, pretty much. So. So, David, the first thing that I want to touch on that you talked about in your book is this this change in the buyers journey. Can you talk to us about what that change looks like? Absolutely this is kind of one of the buzz words right now, this idea of a buyers journey any but what I'm really doing is looking at it from the Salesperson's point of view, and what's happened is, because of this thing called the Internet, we have such access to information that we've never had that before, and it's really changed the relationship between buyers and sellers, or you can even think of it as the relationship between the influencer and the person we're trying to influence. And what has happened is the information asymmetry that really dominated sales in the last half of the twenty century has really flipped. where it used to be that the salespeople had all the knowledge, they have the information and their prospects, their customers didn't have any. Now a buyer can go to their smartphone and basically get any information they want. And what this parody has really created, and in fact I don't know if it's parody anymore, I think that our buyers actually even have more control of the process, and we do, as salespeople and marketers and professionals who are trying to influence others, that we have to just reconfigure how we're going to provide value. No longer can we...

...call and say, Hey, I've got this new white paper, I'd love half an hour of your time to go over it. We have to assume that the people that we're talking to have information, they have the knowledge, and so we have to be able to get in there and provide value in a different way to help them actually use that information. And are there some particular tie you know, I'm a big proponent of kind of the value first mindset. You have to add value out of the gate, and I hear a lot of people talking about, you know, the fact that you have to add value, you have to add value, but I don't hear a lot of people actually giving ways to add that value right. So it's, you know, I think the the extent of their advice is, well, you need to figure out how to add value. It's so what in your experience, in the clients that you're working with and what you're doing yourself, are there some specific ways that that you've gone about adding value to people. That have been pretty effective. Yeah, so the word value is one of those wonderful words like love or freedom, that everybody thinks they know. But if everything got a different idea, everybody's got a different way of looking at it. For me, the idea of building value in this new environment is actually about helping people process the information that they do have into a form that allows them to make more effective decisions, faster decisions or better decisions. Okay. So, for example, one of the things when we talk about this idea of building value for a prospect, instead of saying I have information for you, it's you have all this information, I have some expertise that will help you translate that. An example I use in the book, for is with real estate. Right, most people could probably get all the information they possibly could want if they are going to buy a house in an area. Yeah, but you still need a knowledgeable agent from that area to be able...

...to help you not only navigate all the INS and outs of the home buying process, but they can also say, well, you actually don't want to be in that neighborhood because you say you have young kids in the school district. Line is actually you know one block away and you're not going to send the kids to the school that you want to. You know the people have that expertise. I think the idea of expertise is going to become more and more important, but it's not just something we can be s anymore. We actually have to be able to work with our prospects, are clients, and help them make better decisions, because if we can't, they don't need us and we're irrelevant. So so this next part of the book that we're going to talk about, David is becoming a sales shirp. What's that mean? Well, that, for me, is how you encapsulate this this new idea of guiding our prospects and customers. If you think about what a sales serpa or what a shirt PA is, it's this idea of somebody who guides the climber up the mountain. Everybody knows what the end goal is, is to get to the top of the mountain. The sharp is the person who's done it before, who's an expert in the mountain, knows the INS and out, the cracks, the crevices, the places to be aware that there might be danger popping up, and who takes that climber and says, let me, let me take you there. In the same way for us to be a sales shirt, but it's really how do I develop a not only the expertise in my area, but then build a relationship with that prospect of customer over time so that I am the person they trust to take them up the mountain, so to speak, to that end goal. And so a big thing here is that it's not also not as transactional as used to be. A really is relational. It's about starting that relationship with a prospect, your customer, maybe before they even know that they're going to be a customer someday. And and so that's another thing that I find myself talking a lot about, David, the idea of particularly in a b toob context, which the folks listening to this are all inside of a Bob context. Right, the...

...purchases that are being made are, you know, pretty high value, and so to think that your you need to come at it with a transactional sales approach as opposed to the relational approach that you're talking about to meet just is is crazy that that people wouldn't think to put in the effort that it takes to build a genuine relationship and obviously, going back to your statement about value, if you want to create a genuine relationship you have to be able to add value up front, and you know we've done that. We obviously have this podcast that we can offer it at say hey, we want to feed you on our podcast. I've got a column that I write for in the huving a post that we offer to say hey, I want to want to feature you on our having them post column. Are there other things that that you found that are effective at can building that relationship from the start, even if it is maybe not related specifically to the product or service? Sure, one of the biggest things I always tell people is that every business relationship starts as a human relationship and, as I mentioned, I've I wrote a lot of books before this one that we're very focused on networking and building relationships just outside of the sales world. But it really comes down to this idea of how do we build a human relationship to build that trust. There's the old sales addage. You know, people do business with peol they know like and trust. There's nothing in there that says and is an expert in an industry or can offer of, you know, five percent discount over the q three revenue? Sir, it's No. Can you actually establish a human relationship? So one of the things, and it still blows my mind, it we're not up be to be sales. For example, the idea of somebody thinking, well, I'm just going to call some guy and he's going to, you know, write me a thirtyzero check tomorrow or a half a million dollar check next week. Yep, no. It's one of the things I council...

...a lot of people to do is go who are the influencers that you want to be talking to? When I say influence or it's not necessarily an author or a podcast host, but the people who are influencing the sale. They say the average BB sale, depending on the numbers you look at, anywhere between five and seven different people are going to be engaged and involved in that decision. So start reaching out to the people, whether it's in your named accounts or whether it's just people in the industry that you know could be prospects. Reach out to them before you try to sell them. Right. And what are we reaching out to them with? Is it with collateral? Is it with you know, opportunities are we making, you know, trying to make connections for them with, you know, with other people that we think that they would want to be connected with? What? What does that outreach look like? Great Question. By the way, any of those things could work. A lot of times I think we get hung up trying to figure out the perfect way of doing something and then we don't do anything. But it could be just as simple as saying linkedin will be a great example of this. Looking at using digital tools. Hey, I notice that you're in this industry. We have a lot of shared connections. Would love having my linkedin network just to see if there's some way that we can provide value for you in the future. Right. And then so you connecting now, you know, can be sharing different for content, you know, podcast that you find, articles, all that kind of thing. It could be reaching out to somebody saying I know that you're probably all set with your needs at company X, Y Z, I'd love to just take you out to launch see if there's, you know, what you're working on, if there's any way I can help me now or in the next six months. But actually doing that. So many people hear that and then they approach it like fro we were saying it, like the aggressive desperate salesperson, like hey, can aboudy to lunch, take you to lunch and, you know, pick your brain, trying to get everything I possibly can from you so I can sell you. I mean, people can smell desperation, right, they really can. I use it. I use the example of the old movie maverick where the...

...card player sits down the table says hey, for the next hour I promised to lose, because he's just there. He's in this context trying to figure out the twels that everybody has, but he's just saying, Hey, I just want to be here, I want to figure out what's going on and then, you know, we'll try to do business together. Yeah, there's I don't know if you followed John Barrows at all, but oh yeah, John Talks about this idea of, you know, how how people can smell the desperation on a salesperson and he said the cure for that is to have, you know, a massively fat pipeline and and so I think you know, the things that I hear him talking a lot about just being very methodical at you know, every every day, Monday through Friday, building a pipe, building these relationships so that, because you have a nice pipeline and you've got a lot of opportunities that you're working at one time, you don't come across as desperate or like you're begging to pull out all the information you could possibly pull out of somebody just so that you can turn around and sell them, because they're not the only iron you have in the fire, so to speak. And so so that's that's where my brain went as soon as as soon as you started talking about that. One hundred percent Yep. So this, this next piece that we're going to talk about, David, is understanding the sales matrix. What is a sales matrix? And Talk to us about you know what what this looks like. Sure that that's actually a wonderful next step, but we're talking about not being desperate, not being transactional. One of the things that I really looked at in the book, and I come from a very old school sales background, direct sales. I knew all about the sales funnel and the pipeline and you know, this very LINEAR A to B Toc we say this, we build this value, ask this question and then we close. And if we are going to be honest with ourselves. The sales world isn't harder these days or easier. It's always been challenging, but it is more complex. There is more information, there's more decision makers involved, there's all these different pieces of information we have to manage, and...

...the idea of a sales matrix is just the idea that, instead of looking at our sales process as a linear, step by step process, we have to look at at as a Web, right, as an interconnected cloud of different decisionmakers and information inputs, and we have to be able to navigate that. We have to be open in the fact that we might develop a relationship with one person in the organization and everything's going along smoothly and then somebody else is going to come into that and we have to then figure out where they are, what information they have, you know, provide value for that new person. We also have to then take into account that each of those people could go onto their cell phone, put a social media post on Linkedin, ask questions about what we're trying to sell or a while would industry we're in or talk to some of their other contacts. And it's it's really just understanding that sales these days is contextual, and if we don't acknowledge that, we look foolish and we're we're just not going to be very successful. Yeah, I totally agree. It's again going back to the Betab thing. We're not selling a ten dollar solution, yet we're trying to structure our messaging and the way that we have conversations with people like we're robots because we think we need to have, you know, twenty seven million conversations a week to affect til you know what we're doing. But the reality is you don't. You need you need have quality conversations, quality engagements with people, which require exactly what you just said, context and to have that context, unfortunately, there's not a there's not a Bot that you can run to be able to do that. You, as the individual, have to figure that out. Well, I'm going to actually say that. Thank goodness abot can do that, because if a BOT could do that, you don't have a job anymore. Exactly. I think what we're seeing, and people ask me all the time, will okay, what are the the how do you execute on this? What are the tactics? What do I got to do? Sales people are famous...

...for that. Don't tell me any of this other Mombo Jonma, just tell me what to do. But the reality is is we are moving away from this factory azation of the sales process, which was just again linear, just do the same thing over and over, make a bunch of calls, ask the right questions and you got to sale to somebody who is a consultant, who is contextual, who is going to be able to think creatively through this process. Because, again, if a customer can just go on a website, fill out a form and get the solution they need, they don't need to use a salesperson. The salesperson building value is going to be the one who can understand this wide landscape that's in front of their buy or and help them through it. So there's there's no more easy answers. I mean, I wish I could just go see, yeah, here's the three things, just do these over and over and you'll be successful. It's much richer and deeper than that. And also, once you figure that out, you're you're going to have a job for a long time, because that's not going to be replaced by Amazon any anytime soon. Totally agree, David. Before before I let you go today. Are there any other tactical ideas for how people can take of lessons from from your book and from the things that you teach and actually apply them, you know, in their own working environment? Sure, after I told you there's no easy answers. You want easy answers, here's there are a couple quick things I can see suggested people. The first is actually something you touched on. have regular, consistent relationship building practices built into your schedule instead of having this approach to your metrics being I'm going to track how many cold calls I'm going to do or how many cold emails I'm to send. Ask Yourself, did I I have five touches on a new relationship, or did I reach out to five people who're in my network but aren't direct buyers? Did I reach out to those five people to day, Just Ping them with a text or an email? Or, you know, for me, for example, and I know I've seen you on Linkedin,...

I'm very engage in that platform. You know, I have my check boxes that I have to do on Linkedin on a weekly basis as far as interacting with people, engaging with content, sharing stuff, even just doing that, creating some simple replicatable activities. You keep doing that, you keep planting those seeds, you keep cultivating them over and over again, you'll be successful. If you're a farmer, you don't have to reinvent the wheel every day, but you have to plant your seeds and to take care of them if you want to get the harvest down the line. So that's that's I guess how I would approach it. Yeah, and I think the thing you touching on there that that's been a challenge for me and then I'm trying to get better at is is just the consistency of it and and building that habit over and over and over again. So for me, I knew that if I'm going to be connecting with lots of people from from our podcast and and through different ways that I meet people, I'm going to be connecting with those folks on Linkedin, that I need to be way more consistent in Mike in the in the content that I'm putting on that platform so that I can then start to nurture at scale a bit. But then also diving in, you know, when people comment, engaging in individual kind of conversations within the comment threads of those posts. It's allowed me to have a lot of actual one on one conversations with folks that kind of stemmed from content that I put out for for my large my network at large. But building in that consistency has been tough. So I think that if folks can nail that and, just like you said, build those habits where you're doing these things week in and week out, I am and total agreeans that that's where that's where they're going to find success. You still got to do the work right. There's no secret. Even though the world's more complex and you gotta know context all these wonderful things, is still comes down to doing the right things over and over, consistently and regularly. David, if somebody out there listening wants to stay connected with you, they want to they want to find your book. What's the best way for them to go about doing that? Would love to connect linkedin them. There a lot obviously linkedincom in. I am DFISH, I am dfish...

...twitter. I'm there a lot as well. D Fish Rock star, or feel free to visit our online home, David JP FISHERCOM BE TOB growth. We've got a landing page just for all of you wonderful listeners. And that's where you can find out all the information about my book, ask me questions, and all of our speaking coaching, all the good stuff we do. Would love to engage awesome day, but well, thank you so much for your time today. This has been fantastic. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. To ensure that you never miss an episode of the B Tob Growth Show, subscribe to the show and Itunes or your favorite podcast player. This guarantees that every episode will get delivered directly to your device. If you or someone you know would be an incredible guest for the B tob growth show, email me at Jonathan at sweet fish Mediacom. Let us know. We love connecting with be to be executives and we love sharing their wisdom and perspective with our audience. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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