522: 6 (and a Half) Steps to Using the Revenue Funnel Maturity Model to Grow Your Business w/ Matt Ostanik

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Matt Ostanik, Founder and CEO at FunnelWise.

A relationship with the right referral partner could be a game changer for any be to be company. So what if you could reverse engineer these relationships at a moment's notice, start a podcast, invite potential referral partners to be guests on your show and grow your referral network faster than ever? Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to the be tob growth show, a podcast dedicated to helping be to be executives achieve explosive growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. I'm James Carberry and I'm Jonathan Green. Let's get into the show. Welcome back to the BE TOB growth show. Today we are joined by Matt Austink. Matt is the founder and CEO at Funnel Wise. Matt, welcome to the show. Hi, Jonathan, it's great to be here. Really appreciate the chance to be on today. That's a pleasure to have you on the show because I think we're actually going to be talking about something that is that is very unique in this program, which is great because we're at five hundred plus episodes now. So I love when when you not really get to tackle something that still has a very unique quality to it. We're going to be talking about using the revenue funnel maturity model to grow Your Business, but before we get into that, Matt, maybe you can tell our listeners a little about what you and your team at funnel wise or up to these days. Yeah, I'd be glad to thank you, so I'd funnel wise. What we're what we're doing is we provide software in services to help companies get more out of their marketing and sales funnel. I started the business three years ago. I previously had led a large marketing and sales organization as part of my prior SASS business and I really got frustrated with, even with all the tools that I had there, not having the full intelligence into my funnel data to really help me get the most out of my funnel from that particular business. So I started funnel wise and we built a great software solution and do a lot of other things on top of that to really help you really squeeze more dollars out of your marketing and sales funnel processes. That's perfect. At your you're...

...obviously an expert in the funnel. It's right there in the name of your company. So I think you're the right guy to come on today and talk to us a little about this revenue funnel science maturity or the Revenue Funnel Maturity Model, and, you know, just to just to bring our listeners up to speed. I mean this is really a model by which they can use. They can use this model to measure, forecast and optimize their revenue funnels for their own business. But maybe you can sort of go into it in a little bit more detail for us. Yeah, and I can give you a little bit of context on it, which should be great as well. Funnels are complex machines, right, and as you build them out and as you learn to better leverage the data and the technology you have around them, we see companies go through different stages of mature as they learn to really maximize what they're getting out of their funnel as well. And a few months ago we published the Revenue Funnel Science Maturity Model just as a way to describe the stages of growth that we see different companies going through as they try to implement the tools and work through the internal planning to really maximize what they're getting out of their funnels as well. So it's kind of like a blueprint for the journey and as we work with companies we see many companies that are in the early stages of it, but there's also some great examples of those that are much further along on. It kind of gives you a map for where you're going and where you might aspire to be with your companies on funnel in the future as well. Perfect well, you know, we've got we've got sort of sort of seven steps, sort of six and a half, sort of eight steps. But why don't we? Why don't we start it this first step, step zero, really, according to according to funnel wise, talk about this desire in the need. What do you mean by that? Yeah, it really starts with the level zero, or kind of the prerequisite for any of the other levels. Are Is your company trying to get more out of your funnel? Are you trying to grow or you are a company with growing revenue? Are Marketing and sales interested in working together or has the Seeho...

...or somebody else told them that they should be interested in working together to really grow more? And increasingly in today's world we see lots of companies where that desire and need is they are right. Sales is getting tougher in many ways. Marketing is getting more and more accountable and involved with revenue growth. Many, many companies have this desire and need. But there's also a lot of certain vertical industries where perhaps marketing hasn't changed, where the growth isn't there quite as much yet. So the desire and need in some areas it is still a thing that companies are looking for, but it is growing. The market is expanding terms of the companies where marketing and sales really have said, yeah, we want to work together and we've got a need to try and drive more from our funnel. Okay, so you have the need, you have the desire, you sort of maybe even have the the infrastructure and place where you're where you're ready to grow. But let's talk about then. Okay, so stage one. What does that look like? Well, and actually it's interesting that you say, Jonathan. Actually, so save zero really just is desire and need, no infrastructure yet. And Stage one is really when we get into okay, let's start to put some of this infrastructure in place. And for most companies there's two key pieces of technology, a CRM system and a marketing automation system as well, and it depends who you're talking to. Right, crums are very common today, even though there's still a lot of businesses that don't have crums as well, but particularly in the marketing automation side, platforms like Marquetto and hub spot and part and act on and Eloqua and many others, you see a ton of growth with companies deploying those types of tools alongside their serum platform. And what happens is when you start to put that technology infrastructure in place, it becomes really important that you map out a blueprint for what you think your funnel should look like or does look like or will look like. And so that's really what stage one consists of, getting that core technology, crum marketing automation in place and talking through a blueprint of...

...hey, here's what we think our funnel might look like, here's the stages, here's the journey that a prospect goes on. That journey will inevitably change as you go, but just mapping out and talking about what you think it does look like today, if that makes sense. HMM. Yeah, so, Matt, I mean, do you also feel that you know you're talking about the power of certain crm's and you know how effective they can be. I mean, do you also need to be thinking critically about the fact that you're you're using it appropriately? You know, are you maximizing it is? Is that kind of a part of Stage one? Well, that yes and no. It certainly should be part of any large piece of technology you're deploying. But the additional stages is then, as you go through the maturity model, really focus on how you use the data from your system. Mean, crms are great, marketing automations are great, they're like they're like any tool that you would have in your hand. Right, you can do a million things with it, but you do to figure out how to use it and make sure you're using it properly as well. Yep, absolutely all right. So you've got you've got stage one, sort of stage one a implement the technology. Stage one be established, the blueprint. So what comes in Stage two? Well, stage two then is where you start to capture and slice your key metrics around what's happening in your funnel. So you've got the technology. They're like a CR M in a marketing automation. They're grabbing data. What you're doing in that second stage then is just making sure you're capturing the right data so you have the foundation for further analysis. And really the key things that people need to be capturing and slicing are what's moving and changing in your funnel, so the actual movement from one step in your funnel process to the next, the conversion rates. So of you know, a hundred meetings that we held, fifty two of them or fifty two present converted to the next stage to agree to a second meeting or a proposal or a demo or whatever it is in your particular funnel. And then also velocity and aging. And Velocity and aging both refer to units of time, usually in days,...

...although some businesses it could be measured faster, even in hours. But velocity is how fast things are moving through your funnel, like how long it's spending in each step. And then aging is, when you look at your overall funnel of all the leads or prospects or opportunities you have sitting there, how old or new are they? How long have they've been sitting in whatever particular status they're in in your funnel as well. So this this question maybe sort of a stage three question, but I'm going to ask you now during this when we're talking about stage two, because we get to hear so frequently that there's so much data to be had, there's so many metrics to track, and so it is valuable to think about. Okay, what are the important things to measure and track? Do you find that that there are any vanity metrics that that people maybe get held up on, that you think you know it, that sounds good, or maybe yeah, that's something you have the ability to track, but maybe don't worry about that as much. There are other things that you can be worrying about more. Well, there's certainly are a million vanity metrics that are out there. Many companies get hung up a many different metrics that are of varying degrees of importance. It's hard. I'm trying not to be too judgmental about it, because it depends on the business and depends what matters most of them. I will say one of the traps that we frequently see companies fall into, though, is most ser m systems are good at telling you what is sitting there in your funnel today right a lot of them have a pretty little dashboard you can run that shows you you know I've got a hundred opportunities in this stage, fifty in this stage. It's kind of like a snapshot in time of what's sitting there right now and will that is helpful. As companies mature, one of the key things they have to start to grab about their funnel is not just what's sitting there at a moment in time, but how it's actually moving and changing, and that's when we talk about movement when it comes to key metrics, because otherwise you've got these nap shots that are just strictly backwards looking. But the real trick...

...for most business leaders is how do I get that forward looking view? How do I know where I'm going in the future and what I need to add to my funnel in the future? And so moving beyond just the here's what's sitting in my funnel today into here's what's flowing through my funnel, that's where you get to that higher level of sophistication, and I talked about that because it does get a little bit complex to grab the movement and Mini crm's don't do a great job of providing that to you, and so there's manual ways that you can capture that or you can set up data snapshots or you can use a software to a like funnel wise to start to capture that as well. But the key point is actually understand what's flowing through your funnel and moving beyond more just here's what's here at this one moment in time. Yeah, that's great. I'm and even as you're explaining this, I'm having some some flashbacks to high school physics where we are talking about sort of velocity versus acceleration, and so I don't know if anyone's out there is sort of thinking the same thing, but that's kind of what was going through my mind, sort of a snapshot versus. Okay, how you know? How are these actually moving forward and at what speed? So so that's a let's see, that was stage too on the capture and slice magics. Let's talk about Stage three, this idea of goal planning and actual analysis. Yeah, and I'll actually talk about stage three and then it's okay, I'll have layer stage four on top of that as well. So Stage three is goal planning on an analysis. So prior to that, you got your technology and place, you're capturing some of these key metrics, including movement. So when you really get into stage three, you start to have a conversation about what do I need to be feeding into my funnel and when do I need it? So, if my funnel is being fed by leads from marketing, for example, well, how many leads do I need and when do I need them as well? And it's really reverse engineering your funnel and working through the math based on how things are moving, how they're converting and what your actual velocity rates are. You can figure out, okay, if my goal is to get to this...

...point in the future with my revenue growth, then here's what I actually need, whether it's a hundred or a thousand or ten thousand leads that I need this month or this quarter. It's figuring out what the right amount is to feed into your funnel. And it's tricky because there's that time leg in there right. That's where velocity and aging really come into play because in most businesses, I would say, the average range we see for businesses that we've worked with, our sales cycles that go, you know, anywhere from thirty days to a hundred and fifty days and frankly, have worked with a number of businesses that have sales cycles that are more into like the hundred, eighty two four hundred day range. So you really have to work in advance to figure out what do I need now and at what point do I need in my funnel to make sure that I'm going to get to that future goal? And then what you layer on top of that is stage four, which is the concept of an early warning system, and that's really something to monitor and notify you if you're on track or not. I can give you a very short example from my past business before funnel wise, where we wildly missed our sales goal one particular quarter and it turned out when we actually dip dug through our data afterwards, there were warning signs and changes that were happening higher up in our funnel like a three months in advance, but we didn't have a good early warning system in place at that time in that business, so we didn't see them coming. But if we had seen that, we would have realized the changes and conversion rates and what we were feeding into our funnel was setting us up for failure at some point further down the road. And so that's really what the goal planning and those early warning systems and notifications allow you to do. That's perfect that's perfect. All right. So you've you've got your early warning system in place. What, then, is stage five? Yeah, so stage five then, as we start to get more sophisticated and you look at things like forecasting and also attribution, and those are two different topics. Sales leaders tend to be more interested in forecasting, in my experience, and marketing leaders tend to be more interested in attribution, but they're both very...

...important but complex topics to dig into. Want you have all of this underlying data. Forecasting really is the science of looking at your funnel and figuring out where you're likely to go in the future from a revenue results standpoint. And there's an art side to it that many good sales leaders practice today, where they are their teams go through in place probabilities on their opportunities. Right this one's at twenty percent, this one's at forty percent, based on criteria they've outlined. It tends to be a bit more of an art than a science the traditional way of doing it, but using a new funnel science you can actually get into more of a science based approach where you crunch the numbers and analyze your data and recognize that hey, an opportunity that is thirty five days old has a certain percent of close winning in the next fifteen days, based on what our funnel has typically over the past year. And then on the attribution side, you can also connect the dots in your data to help figure out which of your marketing programs are deriving the best results through your funnel, and then you can use that for better planning around where you're investing on the marketing side. Their complex topics. So even though I'm being a little long winded, I'm also trying to keep them very short here as well. But there's lots of things you can dig into and further detail that really help you get better mastery, ultimately, of that complex machine that is your overall marketing and sales funnel. Yeah, well, and I'm sure you could. I'm sure you could dive much, much deeper into this, which I definitely appreciate. More going to give our listeners a chant us to connect with you after the show if they're interested in following up. But let's, you know, let's let's come down the home stretch here. Stage six, benchmarking and optimization. Tell us a little about that. Yeah, and this benchmarking an optimization is a really exciting area as well. If you can't tell, I'm a bit of a data Geek Myself. I love digging into the funnel data in particular. It always tells a story in my experience, and one of the...

...more interesting things that we've gotten into a funnel wise in particular is being able to compare funnel metrics from one company to another. So when it gets to benchmarking, everybody it's funnel is different, but they're usually are some common elements or common points in the process where it's fair to compare funnel performance data across different similar companies, and so we can sit down and look at, you know, how are your marketing qualified leads converting, or what is the difference or the variance and wind rates results across your different sales team members? Some really fascinating stuff that can come from that because you can identify within your particular business how well your funnel is performing and you can specifically quantify, okay, here's how many more dollars we might be able to get out of our funnel by focusing on improving these particular areas. So it can be for companies that are trying to get more out of their funnel. The entire benchmarking process can be a great way to identify and prioritize where to focus next. Perfect well, and, Matt, we're definitely going to make this, we're going to make this graphic, this, this blog, this website available in the show notes that people can, you know, really dive back into this idea of a revenue funnel maturity model. But I think you know, people are going to. People want to follow up, they're going to have additional questions. Maybe they want to find out a little bit more about funnel wise or connect with you. What's the best way for them to go about doing that, Matt? Yeah, three great ways, Jonathan. So. One, on our website, funnel wisecom, there's a whole section on revenue funnel science and the maturity model and lots of great content. Second, to connect with me personally. I'm easy to find on Linkedin. Would love to hear from you, Matt Austinick, and I'm also pretty easy to find on twitter. You don't even need to spell my last name to find me on twitter. Just funnel wise, Matt will take you right to me. That's fantastic, Matt. Thanks again so much, for carving out a little time and joining us today on the show. Was a pleasure having you. Thanks, Jonathan. It's great to be here. If you're a be tob marketer, we want...

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