522: 6 (and a Half) Steps to Using the Revenue Funnel Maturity Model to Grow Your Business w/ Matt Ostanik

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Matt Ostanik, Founder and CEO at FunnelWise.

A relationship with the right referralpartner could be a game changer for any B to be company. So what if you couldreverse engineer these relationships at a moment's notice, start a podcastinvite potential referral partners to be guess on your show and grow yourreferral network faster than ever learn more at sweetfish media. DOTCOM, you're listening to the Beta, be growth,show a podcast dedicated to helping be to be executive, achief, explosivegrowth, whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools andresources. You've come to the right place, I'm James Carburry and I'mJonathan Green. Let's get into the show we'll go back to the be to be Grothshow today we are joined by Matt Austinex mad is the founder and CEO atfunawis. Matt. Welcome to the show Hi Jonathan, it's great to be here, reallyappreciate the chance to be on today. It's a pleasure to have you on the show,because I think we're actually going to be talking about something that is,that is very unique in this program, which is great because we're at fivehundred plus episodes now so I love Hen. We, you know really get to tacklesomething that still has a very unique quality to t we're going to be talkingabout using the revenue funnel maturity model to grow Your Business, but beforewe get into that Mamaybe, you can tell our listeners a little about what youand your team at fun a wiser up to these days. Yeah I'd be glad to thankyou, so I funo wise what we're? What we're doing is we provide software andservices to help companies get more out of their marketing in sales funnel. Istarted the business three years ago. I previously had led a large marketing insales organization as part of my prior SASS business, and I really gotfrustrated with, even with all the tools that I had there not having thefull intelligence into my fonal data to really help me get the most out of myfonel from that particular business. So I started fun awise and we built a agreat software solution and do a lot of other things. On top of that, to reallyhelp you really squeeze more dollars...

...out of your marketing in sales, funnalprocesses, TAT's, perfect, you're, you're, obviously, an expert in theFonel- it's right there in the name of your company, so I think you're, theright guy to come on h today and talk to us a little about this revenue, funnel science, maturity orthe Revenue Funnel Maturity Model, and you know just to just to bring ourlisteners up to speed. I mean this is really a model by which they can use.They can use this model to measure forecast and optimize their revenuefunnels for their own business. But maybe you can sort of m go into t and alittle bit more detail for us yeah, and I can give you a little bit of contexton it, which should be great as well. Funnels are complex machines right and,as you build them out, and as you learn to better levergs the data and thetechnology you have around them. We see companies go through different stagesof maturity as they learn to really maximize what they're getting out oftheir funnel as well and a few months ago, we published the revenuefunalscience maturity model, just as a way to describe the the stages ofgrowth that we see different companies going through, as they tried toimplement the tools and work through the internal planning to reallymaximize what they're getting out of their fals as well. So it's kind oflike a blueprint for the journey h and as we work with companies, we've seemany companies that are in the early stages of it, but there's also somegreat examples of those that are much further along on it kind of gives you amap for where you're going and where you might aspire to be with your yourcompany's own fall in the future as well. Perfect. Well, M! You know, we'vegot, we've got sort of sort of seven steffs sort of six and a half sort ofeight steps, but why don't we? Why don't we start at this first step stepzero, really according to according to funnel wise talk about this desire inthe need? What do you mean by that yeah? It really starts with the level zero.We're KINDOF prerequisite for any of the other levels are. Is Your companytrying to get more out of your funnel? Are you trying to grow or you a companywith growing revenue or marketing in...

...sales interested in working together orhas the co, or somebody else told them that they should be interested inworking together to really grow more and increasingly in today's world? Wesee lots of companies where that desire in need, as they are right, sales isgetting tougher in many ways. Marketing is getting more and more accountableand involved with revenue growth. Many many companies have this desire er inneed, but there's also a lot of certain vertical industries where perhapsmarketing hasn't changed or the growth isn't there quite as much shut. So thedesire in need in some areas is still a thing that companies are looking for,but it is growing. The market is expanding in terms of the companieswhere marketing in sales really have said yeah we wan to work together andwe've got a need to try and drive more from our funnel. So you you have theneed. You have the desire, you sort of maybe even have the theinfrastructurein place where you're, where you're ready to grow. But let'stalk about then okay, so stage one. What does that look like? Well, AC?It's interesting tha, you say Jonathan Actually, so save zero really just isdesire and need no infrastructure yet and stage. One is really when we getinto okay. Let's start to put some of this infrastructure in place and formost companies, there's two key pieces of technology, a crm system and amarketing automation system as well, and it it depends who you're talking toright crms are very common today, even though there's still a lot ofbusinesses that don't have searons as well, but particularly in the marketingautomation, side, platforms like Marcato and hub spot and pardod andacton and Eloqua and many others. You see a ton of growth with companiesdeploying those types of tools alongside their seer and platform, andwhat happens is when you start to put that technology infrastructurein place.It becomes really important that you map out a balloo print for what youthink your funnel should look like or does look like or well look like, andso that's really what stage one consists of getting that corttechnology, Serum Marketing Aunimation...

...in place and talking through ablueprint of hey here's, what we think our funnel might look like. Here's thestages, here's the journey that a prospect goes on that journey willnevitbably change as you go, but just mapping out and talking about what youthink it does look like today. If that makes sense, MHM yeah so ma I mean. Doyou also feel that you know you're talking about the power of certain crmsand you know how effective they can be. I mean: Do you also nead to be thinkingcritically about the fact that you're you're, using it appropriately or youmaximizing it is- is that kind of a part of stage one well that yes and no,it certainly should be part of any large piece of technology, you'redeplaying, but the additional stages, then os you go through the maturitymodel, really focus on how you use the data from your system mean sourams aregreat marketing. AUTIMATIONS are great they're like they're, like any toolthat you would have in your hand right. You can do a million things with it,but you do to figure out how to use it and and make sure you're using itproperly as well Ye. Absolutely all right, so you'v You've got you've, gotstage one sort of stage, one a implement the technology stage, one Bestablished the Blue Brent. So what comes in stage to well stage too, then,is where you start to capture and slice your cametric around, what's happeningin your Faul, so you've got the technology there like a crm andmarketing aunimation they're grabbing data. What you're doing in that secondstage, then, is just making sure you're capturing the right data, so you havethe foundation for further analysis and really the key things that people needto be capturing and slicing are, wants, moving and changing in your funnel, sothe actual movement, from one step in yeur funnel process to the next. Theconversion rates so of you know a hundred meetings that we held fifty twoof them ore, fifty two percent converted to the next stage to agree toa second meeting or a proposal or a demo or whatever it is in yourparticular fol and then also velocity and aging and velocity in aging, bothreferative units of time, usually in...

...days, although some businesses, itcould be measure faster even in hours, but pilosity is how fast things aremoving through your funnel like how long it's spending in each step andthen aging is when you look at your overall funnel of all the the leads orprospects or opportunities you have sitting there, how old or new are they?How long have they been sitting in whatever particular status they're inin your funel? As well so this this question maybe sort of a stage threequestion, but I'm going to ask you now during this Wen, we're talking aboutstage too, because we get to hear so frequently that there'r so much data tobe had there's so many metrics to track, and so it is valuable to think about.Okay, what what are the important things to measure and track? Do youfind that that there are any vanity metric that that people maybe get heldup on that? You think you know it that sounds good or maybe yeah, that'ssomething! You have the ability to track, but maybe don't worry about thatas much. There are other things that you can be worrying about more well,there's, certainly ar a million vanity metrecxetera out there. Many companies get hung up on manydifferent metrics that are during degrees of importance. It's hard, I'mtrying not to be too judgmental about it, because it depends on the businessand depends what matters most to them. I will say one of the traps that wefrequently see companies fall into, though, as most serm systems are goodat telling you. What is sitting there in your funnel today right a lot ofthem have a pretty little dashboard. You can run that shows you. You know.I've got a hundred opportunities in this stage. Fifty in this stage, it'skind of like a snapshot in time of, What's sitting there right now and well.That is helpful as companies mature one of the key things they have to start tograb about their funnel is not just what' sitting there at a moment in time,but how it's actually moving and changing, and that's when we talk aboutmovement when it comes to Kemetrics, because otherwise you've got these stapshots that are just strictly backwards...

...looking, but the real trick for mostbusiness leaders is how do I get that forward? Looking vow, how do I knowwhere I'm going in the future and what I need to add to my funnel in thefuture and SOE moving beyond just H, here's what's sitting in my funneltoday into hears what's flowing through my funnel. That's where you get to thathigher level of sophistication- and I talk about that, because it does get alittle bit complex to grab the movement and mini searems. Don't do a great jobof providing that to you and so there's manual ways that you can capture thator you can set up data snapshots or you can use a software to like phoneol wiseand start to capture that as well, but the keypoint is to actually understand,what's flowing through your funnel and moving beyond more just heres. What'shere at this one moment time, yeah, that's great, and even as you'reexplaining this I'm having some some flashbacks to high school physics,where we were talking about sort of velocity versus acceleration and h. SoI don't know if anyone out there is sort of thinking. The same thing betthat's kind of what was going through my mind: sort of a snapshot: Verses,Okay, how you know how are these actually moving forward and at whatspeed so um? So that's a let's see that was stage two on the capturing slicematrics. Let's talk about Stage three, this idea of goal planning an actualanalysis, yeah and ill actually talk about states three and it 's, ok, halayer stage for on top of that, as well so stage three is goal: planting an analysas so, prior tothat, you got your technology in place, you're capturing some of these kemetrics, including movement. So when you really get into stage three, youstart to have a conversation about. What do I need to be feeding into myfunnel and when do I need it? So, if my funnel's being fed by leads frommarketing, for example, well, how many leads do I need, and when do I needthem as well, and it's really reverse engineering, your funel and workingthrough the math based on how things are moving, how they're converting andwhat your actual velocity rates are. You can figure out. Okay, if my goal isto get to this point in the future,...

...with my revenue growth, then here'swhat I actually need, whether it's a hundred or a thousand or ten thousandleagues, that I need this month or this quarter, it's figuring out what theright amount is to feed into eger funnel and it's tricky, because there'sthat time leg in theire right, that's here, elastn aging really come intoplay because in most businesses I would say the average range we see forbusinesses that we've worked with our sales cycles. That go. You knowanywhere from thirty days to a hundred and fifty days and frankly, I've workedwith a number of businesses that have sals cycles that are more into like thehundred and eighty to a four hundred day range. So you really have to workin advance to figure out. What do I need now and at what point do I need inmy funnel to make sure that I'm going to get to that future goal and then,when you lay er on top of that, its stage, four, which is the concept of anEarly Warning System? And that's really something to monitor and notify you ifyou're on track or not. I can give you a very short example from my pastbusiness before followise, where we wildly missed our sales goal, oneparticular quarter and it turned out when we actually DP dug through a dataafterwards, there were warning signs and changes that were happening higherup in our funnel like three months in advance, but we didn't have a goodearly warning system in place at that time and that business, so we didn'tsee them coming, but if we had seen that we would have realized the changesin conversion rates and what we were feeding intoorfumbel was setting us upfor failure at some point further down the road, and so that's really what thegoal planning and those early warning systems and notifications allow you todo. That's perfect. That's perfect! All Right! So you've you've got your earlywarning system in place. What, then, is stage five? Yes a stage? Five, then, iswe start to get more sophisticated and you look at things like forecasting andalso attribution, and those are two different topics. Sales leaders tend tobe more interested in forecasting in my experience and marketing leaders tendto be more interested in attribution...

...but they're, both very important butcomplex topics to dig into Wante. You have all of this underlying data.Forecasting really is the science of looking at your funel and figuring out,where you're likely to go in the future from a revenue result standpoint andthere's an artside to it that many good sales leaders practiced today weretheyor. Their teams go through and place probabilities on theiropportunities right this one's at twenty percent, this one's at fortypercent based on criteria they've outlined it tends to be a bit more ofan art than a science, the traditional way of doing it, but using revenue,funal science, you can actually get into more of a science based approachwhere you crunch the numbers and analyze your data and recognize thathey an opportunity that is thirty five days old has a certain percent ofclothes winning in the next fifteen days, based on the Waut or Ponalhasdilically over the past year, and then on the attribution side. You canalso connect the dots in your data to help figure out which of your marketingprograms are deriving the best results through your funnel, and then you canuse that for better planning around where you're investing on the marketingside. They're complex topic. So even though, I'm being a little long winded,I'm also trying to keep them very short here as well. But there's lots ofthings you can dig into in ferther detail that really help you get bettermastery, ultimately of that complex machine that is you'R overall marketingin sales funnel yeah. Well, and I I'm sure you could I'm sure you could diemuch much deeper into this M, which I I definitely appreciate and we're goingto give our listeners a chance to connect with you after the show, ifthey're interested in following up. But let's you know, let's let'scome down tohome stretch here stage. Six benchmarking and optimization tell us alittle about that. Yeah and this benchmarking anoptimization is a reallyexciting heriet as well. If you can't tell I'm a bit of a data Geek Myself, Ilove digging into the funnal data. In particular, it always tells a story inmy experience and one of the more...

...interesting things that we've gotteninto with funawise in particular, is being able to compare fhonel metricsfrom one company to another. So when it gets to benchmarking, everybody fundleis different, but there usually are some common elements or common pointsin the process where it's fair, to compare funnel performance data acrossdifferent, similar companies, and so we can sit down and look at you know howare your marketing qualified leads converting or what is the difference orthe variants and win rate results? Acrosh your different sales teammembers, some really fascinating stuff. That can come from that because you canidentify within your particular business. How well your funnel isperforming, and you can specifically quantify okay, here's how many moredollars we might be able to get out of our funnel by focusing on improvingthese particular areas, so it can be for for companies that are trying toget more out of their funnel. The entire benchmarking process can be agreat way to identifyind prioritize where to focus next perfect well, andnow we're definitely going to make this we're going to make this graphic this.This blog, this website available in the showknows that people can, you know,really m dive back into this idea of a revenue funnel maturity model, but Ithink you know people are gon to o want to follow up they're going to haveadditional questions. Maybe they wanna find out a little bit more about funnelwise or connect with you. What's the best way for them to go about doingthat, map hea three great ways Johnathan, so one on our website,fonnawise tcom, there's a whole section on revenue, foll, science and thematurity model and lots of great content. Second, to connect with mepersonally, I'm easy to find on linkton would love to hear from you Ma Austinikand I'm also pretty easy to find untwitter. You don't even need to spellmy last name to find me on twitter just fun, a wise map, we'll take your rightto me. That's fantasic Ma thanks again, so much for carbonide a little time andjoining us today on the show. Is a pleasure happen thanks Jona than it'sgreat to be here.

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