516: Why Best Practices and Benchmarks are Dangerous w/ Andrea Kayal

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk Andrea Kayal, Chief Marketing Officer at Signpost.

There's a ton of noise out there. So how do you get decision makers to pay attention to your brand? Start a podcast and invite your ideal clients to be guests on your show. Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to the BAB growth show, a podcast dedicated to helping be tob executives achieve explosive growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. I'm James Carberry and I'm Jonathan Green. Let's get into the show. Welcome back to the BB growth show. We are here today with Andrea Kle. She is the CMO at sign post. Andrea, how you doing today? I'm going to James. Are you done? I am wonderful. So I'm excited to chat with you today. Andrew, we're going to be talking about why Best Practices and bench marks are dangerous. Before we get into the topic, I'd love for you to explain to our listeners a little bit about sign post and what you guys are doing...

...over there. Sure sign post is an AI driven crm for local businesses that service their customers. So that would be industries such as SPAS, or education, like cool on, all the way up to very large businesses like learning, experience. Got It, love it. And and Andrea, we were talking offline. You're sharing a little bit about your background. Can you can you share a little bit about what led you to the technology space, kind of what your background was and how you got to where you are? Sure thing? So, I actually started my marketing career on the BC side for very large brands like BMWA, Master Card. I went back to school and then to get my Mba and and while I was there I met a really great bunch of my colleagues and my co work who were very into tack. And so, following that I joined my first Tech Company and I've been in BB marketing fir STASS businesses ever since. I love it. I love it,...

...and so, when we were going back and forth kind of getting the interview set up, this idea of best practices and benchmarks being dangerous, it's very top of mine. For you, it's something you're thinking about a lot. Why? Why is this a topic that you think needs to be talked about? Yeah, I I am very passionate about this topic in particular because you know, I'm usually asked to join businesses and the growth stage that's either between, you know, be is to beat a D rounds and and many times that when I joined an organization, there's a lot of like preconceived notions about, you know, what our bend mark should be or best practices should be. But really that they cavyat is that they're dangerous because when maybe working from either bench bark perspective or about that's practice, a perspective, needs to be evaluated with like in the confines of that exact environment, and the benchmark for your or may be much different from like what's working at another business. So yeah, so those are the things that you wear of. And so...

...when we were talking about this before, you'd mentioned a couple different examples, particularly around benchmarks being different. Can you share what you know? What are some of these benchmarks that are different from business to business? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So so that's the danger way. The benchmarks do differ between businesses. And as an example, sometimes someone will throw out a benchmark conversion funnel for me, either in the sales your marketing side, like Oh, I heard you know x, Y and Z's. You know they're converting their leads, you know their ultimate when rate top to bottom is, you know, ten percent. Know, when you take a deeper look into that, you know they have a fremium model. Well, obviously the fremium is going to convert at a higher rate than a model where you collecting money on the first day, and so their benchmark is absolutely different and frankly, if you try to imper that, you may be optimizing for things that that force bad behavior. Got It okay, and so so you're you know, conversion rates...

...being one example. You know your you look at your channel, look at how how you sell. You'd mentioned fremium. Obviously all of these things are going to are going to make an impact. You've done this several times where you've had to go in and really kind of challenge the bench marks and the best practices that that teams are using. Talk to us a bit about the best practice side of it. Why do you constantly need to evaluate the best practices that you're using? Totally? Yeah, this is another hot topic. It's, you know, best practice is age. That's that's along in the short of it, because the you know, I'll give you a standard example that I hear. You know, every business wants to grow the way as an example, like on a mar tech side. That the way that help spot grow. And frankly, those best practices age mainly because of how they grow. They grew through content and organic where they they basically paid a lot of people to write a lot of content. So they still invested for growth,...

...it's just how they did that. Now Mar Tech is super noisy, a lot of content is being written. You know, they sort of defind the model. But you know, getting above that now and have limited resources is hard. So a best practice to grow by con you know, BEA content marketing for one business may not be the way you should be growing today. Yeah, and so since since you've done this a time or two, Andreane, you've gone in to to a team that you were new to and you challenge these best practices in these bench marks. Just knowing that you know they need to be challenged and that they can be dangerous is one thing, but what do we actually do to change our behavior? Yeah, you know, the first piece of this is is testing with smaller investments to see if you're getting auction in anyone of sort of the growth disciplines, which I believe there are six. You know, their content is obviously one of them. There's digital, there's events, there's buzz. You know what you do on...

...the PR side. There's a host of Aitiaes you can do, but I suggest testing with smaller amounts of cash, not like planning huge initiatives around, you know, one tactic. And so that's been this is going to sound sort of ironic, but that's been my best practice. Say there is no best practice challenge the benchmarks. You have to test in your own environment and with small investments. Got It. And when you say testing with smaller investments, could you share some examples of what that would look like? Absolutely so, you know, the digital landscape is changing all the time. You know, I'm a firm believer in input, pull over push but, as I mentioned, like you know. So what I mean by that is how do you get, you know, more of the inbound without having to do much, too much of the push, the brand marketing, which is like nobody is searching for this, I'm going to push my brand at you will convert way less than if somebody's actually in the buying cycul or searching for it, you know. So you can do that now very easily on on Linkedin or...

...facebook now, where you know who your audience is and that they are likely buy Yas of your technology. So you can be super efficient with getting in front of them as a like this massive campaign that runs just because you know there their industry or their function. You can say, like, this person definitely needs to get it. I'm going to upload this list into one of these platforms. Please serve my ad to them. So so you can be super efficient with the spend. Now you don't have to, you know, invest tons of cash and even on the PPC side, just that reasonable expectations and like Sudn hypothesies about what you expect. You can do that with reasonable amounts of money. And as far as you know, like you're stepping in. You're obviously the CMO. You know currently Andrea, and so you're you're at a high level in the organization. I would imagine there's there's a bit of I mean the change management side of it. How do you, I guess, the softer side of coming into a team and not damaging relationships by...

...basically telling people they're stupid for for looking at these bench marks or or using these best practices? What would be the advice that you would have to to a marketing leader maybe stepping into a new team that needs to they need to kind of handle this situation with care. Yeah, I mean it's definitely difficult to navigate. I think the first thing is to make sure that you know the marketing leaders aligned with the Kpis to the business and that you you know you sort of have a handshakee. With Your partner on the sales side and with the CEO in terms of the growth you want to achieve. When you talk to your team about that, you can fanalyze like how things are currently working within that system and if you're not meeting the objectives, that's really the opportunity to test more things with smaller amounts of for cash and then, together as a team, you can say okay, well, we had this lever on, it's just not working as effectively as this one that we're going to test. So I think once you yea. So the summary of that is make sure you align on Kpis, get your team aligned around that and then...

...show them the data you know between what's working and what's not. Everything is data driven out. There's no real anecdotal like feedback you're giving to each other anymore. So so I think that would be the best foot forward. So, Andrew, you're obviously you talk about this, this topic a lot. Is there anything else around this idea of, you know, the needing to examine best practices and bench marks that that you'd want to share before I let you go today? Yeah, sure. I would just say, like the last point of feedback on because I talked to a lot of CEOS in the city where like nervous because they don't feel like they're diversifying their their investments enough on like on the marketing side at least. And and you know my comments and them is like listen, just double down where it's working. Don't just spin up a direct mail channel because you're like, well, the benchmark or best practice in this company was direct mail. Like look, you can working. Just keep the money where the money is. And so that's why I that's why I note that they're dangerous. It's because, you know, like...

...it could lead to that behavior and you can miss opportunities within something that's working for you just because you're nervous. You're going to, you know, Miss Something. So but I think that would be the last piece of advice. I love it, Andrew, if there's somebody listening to this and they want to stay connected with you or they want to learn more about sign post. What's the best way for them to go about doing both of those things? Sure. So, if you want to stay connected with me, I'm on twitter Andrea M Kale, and isn't Mary, and if you want to stay connected with me the assigned post, you can simply go to the site. I see every lead that comes in, believe me, or anybody that's contacting us. I know about so, but thanks for having me, James. I appreciate it. No problem. Maybe. Thank you so much for your time. This has been fantastic. I really appreciate it. Thanks. To ensure that you never miss an episode of the B to be growth show, subscribe to the show in Itunes or your favorite podcast player. This guarantees that every episode will get delivered directly to your device. If you'd like to connect with B tob executives from all over the world, make sure to join our...

...private facebook community. There are some incredible conversations happening inside this group. To Join, Visit Bob Growth Showcom FB. Thank you so much for listening. Until next done.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (1778)