516: Why Best Practices and Benchmarks are Dangerous w/ Andrea Kayal

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk Andrea Kayal, Chief Marketing Officer at Signpost.

There's a ton of noise out there. Sohow do you get decision makers to pay attention to your brand start a podcastand invite your ideal clients to be guess on your show, learn more atsweetfish media dotcom, youere, listening to the bteb growthshow a pottask dedicated to help him bee to be executives achieve explosivegrowth, whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools andresources. You've come to the right place, I'm James Carberry and I'mJonathan Green. Let's get into the show! Welcome back to the beautyby growthshow. We are here today with Andrea Kal. She is the Simo at Seinpost Andre, howyou doing ITA Jame Caden. I am wonderful, so I'm excited to chat withyou today and wr we're going to be talking about why best practices andbenchmarks are dangerous before we get into the topic. I'd love for you toexplain to our listeners a little about signpost and what you guys are doingover there. Sure seincoast is in AI RVENCRM for lobal businesses at serviceUM, their USSERS, so that would be industry such as spas or education likeCulon. All the way up to very large businesses, like th learningEXPERIENCELII and in Adea we were talking offline. You were sharing alittle bit about your background. Can you can you share a little bit aboutwhat led you to the technology space kind of what what your background wasand how you got to, where you are sure, theng m a started, my marketing creeron the Bta Sea side for very large brands like mw, masterbard Um, I wentback to school and then to get my Mba and while I was there, I met reallygreat Bungh of Um mccolleagues and I go work who were Veryn, Ta tack, Anso,following that I I joined my first ttack company and I've been an be to beparketing first ast bisineses ever...

...since Ooit ov it, and so when we weregoing back and forth kind of getting the interview set up this idea of bestpractices, ind benchmarks being dangerous. It's it's very top of mindfor you, it's something you're thinking about a lot! Why? Why is this t e topic thatyou think needs to be talked about? Yeah? I? I am very passionate aboutthis topic in particular, because Um, you know, I'm usually asked to joinbusinesses U'm in the growth stage. That's either between you know, be tobe Te d rounds and Um and many times h, t when I joined in organizationthere'sa lot of like Crek anseene notions about a you know what ourbenmark should be or be best practices should be, but really that big CAVAT isthat they're dangerous, because Um hen,maybe woking from either benchpor perspective or Thas practiceperspective needs to be valuate with like in the comfines of that exactenvironment and that a benchmarke for you war may be much different from likewhat's working at another business, so yeah. So those are the things that youwer and so w we were talking about this before you'd mentioned a couple ofdifferent examples, particularly around bench marks being different. Can youshare? You know wh? What are some of these benchmarks that are differentfrom business to business? Yeah? Definitely yeah. So so that is thedangerway. The benchmark do deifer between businesses and, as an example M. sometimes someone will throw out a benchmark, aconversion funnel for mean osas your marketing satling. Oh, I heard you knowTWANSS, you know they're converting their leads. U You know they're Altimat,wouldn't rite talked about EIS. You know ten percent. No one Y take adeeper look into that. You know they have a Freemiam model. Well, obviously,the freevium is geing o convert at a higher rat than a movel where flettingmoney on the first day, and so their Venc mark is absolutely different. Andfrankly, if you try to infer that, you may be optimizing for for things thatforce that behavior, okay and so so you're you knoconversion rates being one example Y: U...

Ow you're! You re looking at yourchannel, look at how how you sell you'd mention freemium. Obviously, all of these things arearegonna are going to make an impact. You've done this several times where,where you've had to go in and really kind of challenge the bench marks andthe best practices that that teams are using talk to us a bit about the bestpractice side of it. Why do you constantly need to evaluate the bestpractices that you're using totally yeah? That is another hot topic. It'sUm, you know best fractis at age. That's that's along in the short of I, the you know, I'Llgiveyou a standardexample that I hear you know. Every business wants to gerther way as anexample Ikeon the Martexid, the way that Hu tot Gro and and frankly, thosebest packises age, mainly because of how they grow. They grew throughcontent in organic, where they they basically paid a lot of people to readto Loto content, so they still invested for growth. It's just how they did thatnow mark epe, I stupor noisy a lot of content is being written. You know theysarted define the bottle, but you know getting above that now and have limitedresources as hard m. So I best practiced to grow by Conyou know beaccontent. Marketing for one business may not be the way you should begrowing today, and so since, since you've done this a time or two Andrewand You'e you've gone in to to a a team that you were new to and you challengethese best practices and these benchmarks, just knowing that you knowthey need to be challenged and that they can be dangerous. I is one thing,but what do we actually do to have change our our behavior yeah? You knowthe first piece of it is: is testing M with smaller investments, to see Ogaingoction in anyone o sort of the growth disciplines, of which I believe thereare sex? You know their content is obviously one of them. They'Rdigitalthere's events, there's buzz. You know what you do onthe PR side. T E there's a host of an...

...issues you can do, but I I suggest,testing with smaller amounts of cash, not like planning huge initiativesaround. You know one tactic, and so that's been. This is going to soundsort of ironic, but that's been my best practice say there is no best practice challengethe benchmarks you have to test in your own environment and with smal enes gotI and when you say, testing with smaller investments, could you saresome examples of of what that would look like absolutely so you know thedigital landscape is changing all the time you K, ow, I'm affirm, B Geinandput a pull over Bush but, as I mentione like you know, so so what ia by that is?How do you you now more of the unbound Um, without having to do much too much ofthe push the rand marketing, which is like nobody is searching for this? I'mgoing to push my brand at you will convert way lest than if somebody'sactually in the vine sit they're searching for it. You know, so you cando that now very easily on on Lindon or or face book now you know who youraudience is and that they are likely buyers of your technology, so you canbe superefficient with getting in front of them as a like. A massive campaignthat runs just because you know their their industry or ther their function- l Ke this person Um- definitely needsto get it. I'm going to upload this list into one of these baforms. Pleaseserved my ad to them. So so you can be superefficient with the sped. Now youdon't have to I. You know in best tons of cash n and even on the PPC side,just that reasonable expectations and like seven hyapotheses, I'm about whatyou expect. You can do that with reasonable mounth money d. As far asyou Kno, like you're you're, stepping in you're, obviously the CMO you knowcurrently Andrea nd, so you're you're at a high level in the organization. Iwould imagine, there's there's a bit of. I mean the change management side of it.How do you, I guess the softer side of coming intoa team and not damaging relationships, basicallytelling people they're stupid for for...

...looking at these nashmarks or or usingthese best practices? What would be the advice that you wouldhave to to a marketing leader, maybe stepping into a new team that needs to they need to Kindo, handle thissituation with care? Yeah, I mean that's definitely difficult to navigate.I think the first thing is to make sure that you know the margeting yettersaline with the Kpis to the business and that you, you know you serve ot ha handshape with your partner on the sailside and with the CE O in terms of thegrowth you want to achieve. When you talk to your team about that Um, youcan analyze like how things are currently working within that systemand if not meeting the objectives, that's realthy opportunity to test morethings with smaller amounts of or cash, and then together, as a team, you couldsay: okay. Well, we had this Levaron it just not working as effectively as thisone that we're going to task Um. So I think what you ye, so the the summaryAtat t is, make sure you will wine oncape the eyes, get your team alignedaround that and then show them the data you know between? What's working andwhat's not, everything is dad a drivan out, there's no a real anecdotal, likefeedback you're, giving to each other anymore Um. So so I think that would bethe best, but Foarso Andr you you're. Obviously you you talk about this. This topic a lot. Is there anythingelse around? This idea of you know needing to examine best practices andbenchmarks that that you'd want to share before I let you go to yeah sureI would just say, like the last point of Te Backon, because I talked to a lotof cos in the cities where, like um nervous, because they don't feel likethey're diversifying ther their investments enough o like on themarketing side at least and d, You know my comment to them is like lessen justdomble down where it's working, don't just spin up a direct mail channelbecause you're like well the benchmark or best practice in this company wasdirect male, like what f working just keep the money where the money is, and so that's why that's why I knotethat they're dangerous? It's because...

...you know like it could leade to Bobehavior and you could Miss Opportunities Witvhin, something that'sworking for you just because you're nervous, Yau're going to you know misssomething so, but I think that would be the last PC AI. I love it and Er. Ifthere's somebody listening to this and they want to stay connected with you orthey want to learn more about signpost. What's the best way for them to go abotdoing both of those things sure. So do you want to Ta nnecting with me,Amontuitter, Andrea, m, mcal M, isn't Marid and Um. If you want to stayconnected with mabe a Sycho, you can simply go to the site. I see every liedthat comes in believe me, ianybody, that's contacting as I I know about so,but thanks your Haing any games. I ony precnit, no problem. Thank you! so muchfo time t ve been fantastic. I reappreciate a thing to ensure that you never miss anepisode of the B to B grosth show subscribe to the show in Itunes. Wereyour favorite pod cast player this garantees that every episode will getdelivered directly to your device if you'd like to connect with Beto beexecutives from all over the world make sure to join our private facebookcommunity? There are some incredible conversations happening inside thisgroup to join visit. Bta B growth show tcom, slash FB. Thank you so much forlistening until next time.

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