514: The Problem with Marketing Success Metrics in 2017 w/ Elle Woulfe

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Elle Woulfe, VP of Marketing at LookBookHQ.

Are you struggling to come up with original content weekend and week out? Start a podcast, interview your ideal clients, let them talk about what they care about most and never run out of content ideas again. Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to the BB growth show, a podcast dedicated to helping betb executives achieve explosive growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. I'm James Carberry and I'm Jonathan Green. Let's get into the show. Welcome back to the BB growth show. We are here today with L Wolf. She is the VP of marketing at look book HQ. L How you doing today? I'm doing great. I am really excited to chat with you today. L I've actually been I've been hearing a lot of people talk about look book HQ in some of the Linkedin posts that I have been sharing, and so so getting to...

...talk to you as something I'm really excited about. But before we dive into the topic today, we're going to be talking about the problem with marketing success metrics in two thousand and seventeen. Before we get into that, I'd love to have you explain to our listeners what is look book HQ? What are you and your team up dre over? There? Sure so. We are a growth stage company based on a Toronto. I actually personally sit outside of Boston Massachusetts. I am an honorary Canadian, not a true steining, and we are in intelligent content platform. So basically, we help marketers to always deliver the next best content asset on guide their buyers on the the their buying journey. You know, we believe that marketers can generate really great outcomes for themselves, for their companies and for their audiences. So we do this by making it easier for marketers and their audiences to simultaneously achieve their goals. And that is, you know, people consuming the right content at the right time and marketers measuring the truth behind their marketing is working. So we build really...

...easy to implement solutions for marketers that deliver amazing results here after year, and part of that is as we're going to talk about today, which is helping them to understand the truth behind marketing metrics, getting deeper insights into how people are consuming marketing. I love it. I love it so to dive right into that L I guess what will start just by talking about what marketers are doing today. What are they doing to look at their success metrics in two thousand and seventeen? Sure, so everything about sort of where we've come from as marketers. I worked at Eloqua for a long time on the demand generation side and, you know, ten, twelve, fifteen years ago was revolutionary. This idea that we were going to be able to sort of track what people were doing online, people calling a digital body language, online behavior. We could, you know, drop cookies and sort of see where people were going. And suddenly, you know, the buying process was happening online and the fact that we had some insight into what people were doing was was empowering...

...both marketers and sales people. When suddenly, you know, the sales process started to, you know, get sort of taken away from the salesperson. So so we had all this great insight and and how marketers were measuring that was in the form of cliques and downloads and, you know, conversions, form fills, this kind of thing. Right. So that has been the primary way that we've been measuring marketing success. It's, you know, how many people click through on a thing? That's a form of success. How many people attended a Webinar? How many people downloaded a thing? Right, YEP, there's a lot of hope built into those metrics. Right, okay. What we can't see with those metrics is what happened after they clicked. We don't actually know if the marketing was actually consumed, if the buyer was actually educated. So that is really how people are doing it today. That's how we've been doing it, you know, for quite a long time. Yeah, and so obviously the problem with that being that that we don't know...

...what's happening post click. We don't know if they're consuming that content. So why do you think we're stuck there in that kind of predicament of measuring the action that they took leading to what? Would you know? What we would hope would be them consuming the content, but not actually being able to measure whether or not they've consumed it or not. I actually is a couple things. I mean, I think first of all, we've been sort of painted into this corner because, you know, we all sort of put all our eggs in one basket, which was marketing automation. We all sort of ran to that side of the boat and said, okay, marketing automation is going to be the salvation and we're all going to we're going to build our our, you know, our bb marketing process around this and we're going to build these, you know, landing pages and forms, and this is how we're going to convert and we're also going to assume that marketing success is based on these conversion points. Right, and I think we got away from what our jobs as marketers really is. So we really need to get back to the fact that our jobs as markers educating buyers. It's actually educating them so they...

...become influence, so they become educated, so they become qualified to enter into a sales process. And what we've started to do is sort of like gamified the whole thing. It's like what we what we're trying to do is get them to click, get them to score a lot of points, get them to a point where we say yeah, that's good, okay, pass them over to sales. And really all you're doing is handing over a person who potentially clicked on a lot of things because again, you don't, as a marketer, have insight into did it. was there any value to that click? What was the quality of that click. Did they actually are they actually educated? They actually do anything? That they consume anything? Are they actually educated? So and now there's you know a lot of people are talking about intent and you know, you can see what people put intent is just another form of clicking. It's like, Oh, we can see what people are clicking on. Information like this. It's still is divorced from consumption of information. And so I think part of it is, you know, just lack of a better alternative, but also just, you know, we've kind of...

...gotten in the mindset that instead of, you know, as marketers are job is to educate buyers, as marketers, we've kind of have gotten to this place where our job has become to to sort of tally points and we've got a we've got ex sort of tip the scale back in the other direction. So what's what's the alternative then, to this exp what can we do to kind of get over this help? That the corner that we painted ourselves in? Well, I mean it's exactly that, right. I mean, if we assume that as marketers are, job is to really sort of educate buyers and to separate those people who are truly doing research, right, they are showing an intensity around, you know, the buying process. They are consuming cut like so I always use this analogy. So last last summer, I had to buy a new car because as my husband took my car out and, let's just say, it didn't come home with him, and so I needed a car. I was and it was like a mission critical. I have little kids, like I had to have a car, and so I didn't, you know, every Thursday, at one PM, click on an...

...email from a car dealership and like read a little bit of information. I sat down, you know, after I put my kids to bed, and I spent about two hours like reading every piece of information I could get my hands on about the cars that I was thinking of buying, because I had to. I had to buy. So people who are about to buy something, that is the behavior that they demonstrate. Right. You don't consume a ton of content because you're not going to buy something, right. So what we need to do is be able to both facilitate that behavior make it easy for buyers who want to consume out of content. We need to get out of their way and deliver content in a way that makes it easy for them. We also need to be able to identify when that's happening. That's the consumption behavior you're looking for, and so if we can, you know, give empower marketers to identify those consumption metrics separate those people from all those other people who are just clicking. I mean the problem is in your marketing automation platformer or however you're you know, whatever you're running your marketing on today,...

...if you've got two people who are clicking on lots of stuff and one is spending a ton of time pouring over this information and the other is, you know, it's going to die on their on their desktop look much like my desktop looks like right. There's tons of great intentions to read that information, but it's not actually happening. Your sales team absolutely wants to talk to the person who's spending the time with the content, because that's a real buyer, and so that's the consumption behavior we need to zero in on and we need to be able to action and, you know, intelligent content delivery. Because of the way that we deliver the content, we're able to track the the number of assets consumed in the time spent with that content and actually now append that information to the stuff we've always tracked the clicks in the form fills and the downloads and all that stuff, so you get a heightened sense of is their actual consumption happening behind the click. And so once you know that there's consumption behind the click, at that point is when you hand it over to sales, not just when you know when the form has been filled out or...

...when the when the click is happen, but you're actually waiting until after the content has been consumed before you pass that over. Am I understand that right? Yeah, you are, and I mean what I would say is it's up to you how you want to handle that as a marketer. I mean we see people who are sort of, you know, treading into this new world and with different levels of caution, and some are completely, you know, our are it's become a somewhat of a religious experience, and they're saying, you know what, if there's not a serious level of consumption, we're not going to pass it over at all. They're seeing such on the believable, you know, increase in whether it's funnel conversion, you know, sales acceptance, all of the metrics are looking for that. They're unwilling now to pass you know what, whatever you want to call it, lead, lowercase l leads that don't meet this level of sales readiness. Some people are are using it as yet another sort of dimension to score leads and sort of fast...

...track or action these buyers in a different way. You know, we call them internally, we call them, you know, are fast moving buyers, those people who demonstrate this type of behavior. We want to treat them differently. We want to we want to talk to them faster, we want to move them through, and our sales team does too, because, guess what, they move through the funnel two and a half times faster. They command much higher ACVs. And it's not because we're doing anything magical here. All we're doing is we're identifying real buyers. Were separating the actual buyer, the person who has a need to buy a car tomorrow, versus the guy who's like, Oh, I love BMW's, maybe some day I'll get one. I'll click on that ad right and I and we're in. We're just taling up the points, and so it's just all we're trying to do is both facilitate that natural behavior of a buyer who, you know, has something they need to buy and then identify when that behavior is occurring so that sales can take action on it. And it's it makes perfect sense and it's just the next evolution of where we need to go and be, to be marketing.

So how have you found that there's a particular type of content that that is getting consumed more more frequently than others? Is it? Is it video? Is it is a case studies? Is there? Is there a particular type of content that you guys are seeing on the back end? Obviously having lots of clients and lots of different industries using your product, is there anything standing out to you as far as the content that actually gets consumed? I will say the thing that you expect that I will say it's very unique to you know, buying stage or stage of the funnel, type of buyer, type of solution. There's a couple neat things you can do when you deliver your content this way for known buyers. So if I know exactly who I'm targeting with this content, so it's someone in my database, I'm trying to move them from point a to point B, I can curate an experience. I can say I want you to move you through, I want to take you from this high level video to this, you know, analyst report, to this customer story, to this, and I can, I can see,...

...you, know, put these in this sequence and try to move you through these pieces of content. You can also, if I don't know who you are and perhaps you came you were out in the wild, you clicked on a display add or it came to my website and I had no idea, we can power content recommendations with an algorithm where we say for people like you and the relationship of these content assets, we know that. You know, this is the likely series of content that is going to make you stick around. You know. You know. Our hypothesis is here is that attention is really hard to get. When you get someone to click on your addicle, click on your email, to convert on, you know, XYZ offer, we let them disengage so easily from our content. Why don't we make it a little bit harder? Why don't we deliver us? I mean, if you think about how digital publishers keep you engaged, right Netflix, yes, PN, you know YouTube. You can go there and squander an hour because they're using all of this great data to say people like you and they click...

...on this thing. They will tend to stick around for three hours if I serve this, this and this, and we believe be tob marketers should do the same thing with their content. Right. So we're powering a lot of different ways from marketers to be able to do that, and when they do, they can keep buyers much more engaged. And so it has less to do with the type of asset and more to do with the circumstances under which they're serving it. Right, you know, is it an unknown user who shows up on my website and clicked on this first, and therefore I'm going to serve them this, this and this, and so, using all this great information that we have, both about the assets you're trying to serve, the type of people you serve them to in the past the type of person you're serving it to now, we can. We can, you know, serve up a great series of content recommendations that is likely to keep person engaged and clicking and reading and self educating. That makes perfect sense. Oh, this is this has been fantastic. If there's somebody listening to this and they want to dig more into this, they have some more questions, what's the best way for for them to stay connected with you and also learn more about...

...book HQ. I mean it's the it's the old fashioned stuff right. You can visit a book hqcom. We have a great set of resources you can experience. Look Book HQ Content Experiences in action on our website. You can always find me on twitter, L H Wolf, and I'm readily accessible on Linkedin. I'm always happy to connect with fellow marketers out there on the speaking circuit quite a bit. I'll be talking at the Martek Show and Boston, the Zummer and a content marketing world and always happy to connect with with fellow marketers. Awesome. Now. Well, thank you so much for your time today. This has been fantastic and I really appreciate it. My pleasure. If you're a BB marketer, we want to feature you on sites like the Huffington Post, social media examiner and chief marketer. Every week we send out a question related to be to be marketing. We use the responses to those questions to feel the content we write for really popular websites. So head over...

...to sweet fish Mediacom slash questions and sign up today. Thank you so much for listening. Until next done.

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