503: Why Only 21% of Marketers Can Measure Their Revenue Impact w/ James Thomas

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to James Thomas, CMO of Allocadia.

Wouldn't it be nice to have severalthought leaders in your industry, Kno and love your brand start a podcast,invite your industries thought leaders to be guess on your show and startreaping the benefits of having a network full of industry. influencerslearn more at sweetfish media OCOM, you're, listening to the B to be groth,show a podcast dedicated to helping B to b executives a chief explosive growt,whether you're looking for techniques and strategies, tools and resources.You've come to the right place, I'm Jonathan Green and I'm James Carburry.Let's get it into the shol. Welcome back to the be to B Gros show.Today we are joined by James Thonis James, the CMO at Alakadia, as well asa leading industry. Speaker James, welcome to the show great to beor.Thanks for having me should be a fun conversation. I think I'm reallylooking forward to today's conversation. Special thanks, of course, goes out toyou, because I was just informed that it is a holiday up in Canada right nowso you're taking time out of your your sort of free schedule to join us hereon the show, which is incredible. So thank you for that. No problem. We aregoing to be talking today about why only twenty one percent of marketersmeasure revenue impact, and I think that is a very compelling question. Butbefore we get into it Aybe you can tell us a little about what you and theAllacadia team are up to these days. Yes, Yore Great Pl Katy is a marketingperformance management vendor, and what that really means is we helporganizations I really manage their marketing investments, attract theirplans where they're spending money and really talk about the impact that theymake to the organization. So we work with hundreds of customers who arereally trying to be much more about not just being creative marketers butreally running a business ond marketing, helping them understand questions likehow much have I spent on what how much so I have left and what's working andwhat's not and- and you know, as a...

...clouds oprvendor, we help organizationsconnect their systems, and you know it's been. It's been quite a right.I've been here three and a half years. I was actually a customer F Alicediabefore I joined, because I knew the pain of not having access to theinformation h to really drive the business, an my fingertips. So it'sbeen a great ride here we have a great company based up in Vancouver BC, butcustomers Um all over the world and looking forward to talking more aboutsome of the survey work, we've done a and we're that twenty one percent ofMarketer's question actually came from lasst fantastic, and I I love the thestory of that. You were a customer before you actually join the Alicadiateam. I mean its really sort of speaks to the experience that you had as acustomer. That was, it was strong enough that yeah. This is a companythat that I really believe in and want to dedicate sort of my professionallife towards. So that's fantastic. I want let's, let's just jump right inthen James. I yo now t's. Let's talk about this, why I can only twenty onepercent of marketers even measure their revenue impact yeah? We actually did asurvey last year. Kinda come up with this number and it was pretty startlingto us to understand why marketers Y, U W traditionally have really beenfocused on the creative side of marketing. You know building greatcampaigns, telling great stories really focusing on the visuals and andtracking things like leads and likes, and chairs and bollows, and all ofthose things from a be to be perspective. They're superimportant,the FO T VEA mean I that you're mentioning is like gone. outthechallenge, of course, is in twenty seventeenth, that's not good enough. Imean we are in a hypercompetitive environment and we need to be reallylooking at. You know how that money, we're spending is really impacting thebusiness. We're all NDBDB marketing really try to drive growth, trying tounderstand where your investment is being spenned and thit's. No longergood enough just to do great, creative marketing. I like to say that the onesthat do that likely won't have a job in a couple of years, it's great to be...

...build beautiful campaigns, but it'sanswering the question of the business understanding the impact you're makingis critical, so th. The survey was interesting because I talked about howonly twenty percent could twenty one percent could measure revenue impactand there's a lot of reasons for that. A lot of it comes down to n things liketechnology and around data, and and really once an organization knows thatthis is important. What they'll find is that the data lives everywhere. Youknow, live in spreadsheets, it'll, live in your ERP system and live in your crmsystem. And'l live, you know in Pointi sale systems for in certainorganizations. It's it's really everywhere, and so you know thechallenge. We see most organizations that they haven't. Even they finallyrecognize it's a problem thet they actually have to talk about the revenue,so that's the first barrier. The second becomes around technology and abilityto bring it all together and then the third is really about you know. What isthe business want to hear and what is revenue impact actually mean, and soyou K W when we look at those challenges, we really see this need,for you know investment in technology platforms that can bring themaltogether. That can align your investments to the corporate objectives,not just marketing objective, and you know if you can deal all these things.You know the organizations that do connect and do red measure impact we'veseen some incredible oreally promotions. By CMOS, we seen growth increase anthose organizations that do measure RAF impact and frankly get more budget, andyou can do then w what we really want is then you get to do more of the funstuff. If you can measure revenue impact, it becomes this virtual cycleand it's been, it's been amazing to watch some of the companies. We workwith do more with that with that budget because they understand it better, yeah,yeah, absolutely and so off. The top of your head, I mean: Are there what aresome things that you can think of that you know by by tracking the metrix, byby keeping tavs on this information and assigning some numbers to to therevenue impact? What are some things...

...like? Okay, this campaign produce X, YZ, results, or you know this, coupled with you K A facebook at you know, Imean what what is them metric that people should be keeping track oflooking at because, like you said, there's so much information I mean wehave in our own company. We have more information floating around the crmthan we know what to do with sometimes yeah. The first thing we recommend isstop thinking about this, just marketing tactics and thinking aboutthese, the investments you make and the programs make based on corporateobjectives. So what we do is work with our customers to say: okay, what whatare your major objectives say, for example, introduce a new product oropen up a new region, or you know, Launton new solution to a set ofcustomers in a targeted market, so define that first and then what wereally encourage people to do is you know with with the use of ourtechnology, but you could do with other technologies I's, really a sign theactivities they're driving within that objective. So thinking about youprobably do ten or twenty objectives to launch a new product, you might dohundreds for another one. So you thinking about the investment you make,you know simplest, hagging or making sure that you're creating a view of thedata that you can say this investment. This percentage of this investment isfor this corporate objective so rather than doing really Botom optacticalplanning Whel, I C do facebook, as I gotto, do this campaign IV gotto drivethis many leads flip the whole conversation and talk start talkingabout corporate objectis. First then marketing objectives. First, in theclose airline to the corporation, the closer UR LINE IN BB Marketing: U Knosales is the most important a state colder understand why you're spendingmoney? First, then you can do a bottom up plant, a map that what what you getthere is this full view of being able to answer questions like you know? Howmuch does I spend on trade shows as an interesting conversation, because yousay how trade shows are converting. You know somewhat to revenue, but it's hardto do an individual tactic converting to revenue and it's wher people hi toget in trouble is looking at this...

...tactic. This campaign drove this result.It doesn't work that way, but thi set of activities that are alligned towardsan objective. Are the ones t you can track better? So we really wantmarketers to be looking at a bigger picture 'cause. Otherwise you just gotoverwhelmed, and so what we've done with our customers? Jus Look at thingslike they call 'em like a sales play or a narrative, or you know we use aserious decisions campaign framework and I dc taxonomy to give you a way toframe the conversation once you do. That, then building up bautomactocticsis is pretty easy and- and we also think like tha, you know- tagging yourvestment by a customer journey, and so I've talked about a lot of things. It'sactually pretty complex. But if you think about this from the beginning andwhat the business questions you're trying to answer, but that conversationsay what would my CEO want to her? Or what would my c Fo want to hear? Notjust what my marketers want to heare. I think you can have some pretty intesingconversations and Hov that dated at your fingertips, and we see some prettyamazing results with our customers who do that to work up fron when they plan,and it does sort of speak to this idea of a full company alignment. I mean youknow there e a lot of people, talk about Yo, a line, sales and marketinghat a line. Fails MUC. You know, but I mean you're you're, almost you'reexpanding on that idea. I mean you should dobt, but everyone should be aline from top to bottom yeah you mean t pwho's, the one who has the money isthe CFO. So why not speak the language of the F of Finance and most marketers?That we've talked to at least even three or four years ago would avoidmarketing would marking would avoid finance and we really don't want toengage customers. WO, aren't willing to engage with he finance counterparts,otherwise you're just spending money and you're, just giving some randomnumber back and you're really going to frustrate yourself so aligne withfinance Aligne, with your executive aligne with sales, always the mostimportant group and then y W. Ultimately, what that does is givemarketers just that really confident, they're spending the money, the rightway and the building the right programs- and they know really quickly if it'snot working- and I think that's where marketers, we all know it's changing sofast out there right. The pace have...

...changed the new creative tools, howsocial media's impacting the conversation and what worked even ayear ago, doesn't necessarily work today and that's makes marking really ahard job. It's even hard, if you don't know, what's working or what's not, andthat's that's pretty frustrating for people, I think why you see likeSiamottener, being one of the lowest in the Swi C Sueet, because they don'treally understand the impact they're driving to the business and and it'sit's a much bigger callenge than that. So it's a really interesting point: NJames. I also wanted to I wanted to talk about this idea. We had exchangeda few emails a little bit before the Shov t. This idea that there is adifference between running marketing and doing markting or run marketing anddoing marketing yeah yeah. It's one of the things that we we struggled withearly on as a company is explaining why you needed to do this, and so we oftenlook at this whole towns of marketers essentially have two jobs. That's itone is to do marketing the creative side, all of the social of the website.The campaigns, the events to offline digital billbors, all those things are,the activities of doing marketing and that's Wert Technologis, like marketingautomation, systems, come in nd and really the core systems that run thecreative side of marketing. Se Youve got the Dobi marketing clouds andMarcettos and Ellaquas, and the hundreds of other technologies Aligneto help you do that on. The other side is what we call running marketing. Sothat's really about the planning, the investment and really measuring results,and that's th e, really wermarketing performance management fits in and andthing's a really simple way for marketers to understand that they needto do both and at effective marketing. An twenty seventeen requires those twosystems to work together in a syncroness fashion. So you know youwant to be planning your system, planting your programs, alligning tobjectives. You want to make sure managing your investments properly,working with finance to make sure you...

...have the right budget, then you goexecute. You can imagine a figure, eight loop and if you go to our website,tat alaqaedia dotcom you'Llsee a lot of information on it and that eventuallyyou want to be spend more time doing marketing than you do running marketing.But if you don't run marketing properly, you actually don't get to do greatmarketing so check it out I's a lot of research on there to to give you asense of what it looks like and Y we've helped build like a m. Our marketingtechnology stock around the whole runmarketing and De Marketing Conceptand Frank Wy had a really fun campaign. We've got this Hash tag run marketing.If you go check that out, O ontwitter you'll see a lot of stories. You'll seea lot of customers telling how they run marketing and and wow. It's reallyfreed thom up to to be a better marketer overall Yeah Yeah Wellso James.Can I let me ask you, then I mean, because we have, even in this interview,touched a little on how quickly the landscape of marketing can change andevolve. Especially these days, you made the point that something that mighthave been successful a year ago may not necessarily work anymore, becausethings are changing so quickly. How you W do you have any advice, then, for forpeople that are trying to run their marketing do their marketingeffectively, but you know sort of coming up with with a strategy thatworks long term, while also you know realizing that that you know thelandscape can constently be changing. Yeah to me, this realyt comes down to y.u now building the credibility in your marketing team and whe you're marketingprograming, and by that I mean credibility, being able to answer thosequestions from the C fo and C EO about where you're spending your money, anand being really honest with them being super transparent, saying thiscollection of activities has driven this type of of impact. We tried fivethings that didn't work. We weren't afraid to try them. We invested thisway. We did work so we're going to do less of them, and I I find you know.I've talked to a couple of my SOMO counterparts about the content oftransparency and marketing. Before was kind of this black art, we were kind ofkeeping things under the radar. We...

...didn't want to talk about some of thethe results that we had. We wanted to make sure that we protected our assetsand and make sure that we were able to experiment all we want and Y. U watchmarketing. Even ten years ago we didn't have to justify a span. We just have tojustify. You know more viewers and more evenue. You know we didn't know ifWewere a profit or not and like I said those times, really changed so once youget credibility, then you can do a lot of experimentation and we've doneexperimentation with lots of B to b technologies. I'm not a huge team here,but I've got to invest in things like predictively scoring and we're doing alot of work around AC, Acount Base, marketing and we're doing work, and youknow nd lots of work, an social media but trying new things constantly,because you want to be able to experiment. But if you don't, you know,I know in n my past, I didn't necesrly have this information on my fingertip,so I was really mandated what to do, and there is nothing worse as amarketer being mandatd or what to do and go back to what we used to work inthe past and and that's KINDOF. Why? I brought in Al Qaeda my last company togive me credibility and give me the confidence that I knew what was wasworking and what wasn't and then once you do that you get ability to becreative again and that's really. What we want to do is marketers. We don'twant to be buried in spreadshe's, tracking or financial data. We actallyWAN TO O. NO enough of that. You know to to be great marketers and I I thinkthat when you do those two things together, it becomes a lot more fun ofa job again yeah well and if there are any marketers out there who love beingburied in spread, sh dropus inexactlye on the ALGADIA team yeah, so a AhatPeople da we had one company showed us their thirty seven tabs. breadseet theyused them on marketing, I'm like, Oh, my God, dear y, you got t you're better than that o thou, so more fun, Yeah Yeah!Absolutely I mean you know that people get in people get into marketing, for Iwould say more often than not. You know to be part of the the CIN side. Now youhave to be able to crunsh the numbers you have to be able to to do the stuff-that's not quite as entertaining but, like you said, if you can free up moretime to to get to the fun stuff M, you...

...know. That's, that's! I think where thepassion is yeah. I totally agree so James. Thank you us so much again foryour your time for your wisdom on the show. If any of our listeners areinterested in connecting with you finding out a little bit more abouttoday's episode or even what you and the Alicadia team are up to you movingforward. What's the best way for them to go about doing that sure. Well, as Imentioned on our website, Allaqadia dotcom, so allocadia, dotcoms greatplaces start we're really active on twetter and we love to engage with youthere so out of alloceda on sweater, and my m handled is j Thomas Underscore. Forty four, if you want to interact with me directly perfect allright thanks again James, have a great rest of your det and enjoyed thisthanks very much grood. To Talk to you to ensure that you never miss anepisode of the BB growth show subscribe to the show in Itunes or your favoritepit gas player. This guarantees that every episode will get delivereddirectly to your device. If you are someone you know would be an incredibleguess for the B to be groshow email me at Jonathan at sweetfish media dotcom.Let us know we love connecting with be to be executives and we love sharingtheir wisdom and perspective with our audience. Thank you so much forlistening until next time.

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