B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1975 · 8 months ago

5 Reasons ABM is Not For You

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode James Carbary talks with Dan Sanchez, Director of Audience Growth at Sweet Fish Media, about 5 reasons ABM might not be a good fit for your company.

Welcome back to be to be Growth. Myname is James Carberry, and I'm joined today by Dan Sanchez, our director ofaudience growth, and were super pumped to be on the journey that we are on inthe month of February. Dan is doing a deep dive on a B M. So Dan is a geniusmarketer. I brought him onto the team last year seeing some of the work thathe had done at a university, that he was working at a college. He wasworking at Minnesota and hearing stories of just marketingtransformation that he's had in organizations throughout his entirecareer. And I thought, Man, I gotta get this guy on the sweet fish team But thereality was he didn't have any experience and b two b and so eso a fewmonths and he realized, like, Man, I I really thought my B two C marketingbackground would translate MAWR smoothly into B two B. But there are somany strategies and things that I just didn't even think about. So So Dan said,man, what if in 2021 every other month I just did a deep dive on Cem, Cempractices that air pretty specific to be to be. And so we're pumped Thio tobe on this time pumped to be on this journey, listening to dance soloepisodes, interviews he's doing with with different practitioners of a B. M.And so today we are going to be talking about some specific things that youneed to look for in your own business to know whether a B M is actually rightfor you or not. So we're gonna talk about five specific things that youneed to look at and assess in your company to know if a B M is right foryou, Dan. Take it from here, man. And maybe color inside the lines a littlebit on how the Siri's is going for you. So far, I've been loving this. Siri'sso so much so far. I'm a learner. I like to always dig into things that Idon't know, and I've had a pretty good hand on just digital marketing ingeneral. Like I know the tools. I know how to do social. I know how to runpaid ads. I know how to do website optimization, all those normal things.But when I got into the B two b space and, uh, I found that some of the toolsthey're the same, but how you use them is just a little bit different. And alot of the strategies renew a B M. Particularly. I was like, Whoa, thiswasn't even possible in the B two c space. But I'm fascinated by it becauseit just seems like it's such a good way to approach it. If you know who yourideal buyer is, like, you literally know who to target. Because you know,you need to target the head of procurement at, uh, Salesforce. I keepusing that as my example. But if you know who that is and you know his nameis Brian and you have his email or like, oh, that kind of changes the gamebecause before you had no idea who you were targeting, it was like a sandsifting for gold. And now you know where the gold is. You just have to goget it and figure out how to do it. It's just it's a totally different wayof thinking, even though a lot of the tools are the same, so I'm justfascinated by it. I've been learning a lot and ready to learn more. We'reearly in and it's funny. It's funny,...

Dan like, because there's a lot ofthere's a lot of haters, right? In any time something gets popular. Haterscome out of the woodwork. We're doing some original research. Right now,we're interviewing 100 B two B marketing leaders, and one of thequestions we're asking them is what's the most? What's the most overratedtrend in B two b marketing right now? And the overwhelming response from alot of those folks is a B M. And I think a lot of that's being led by, youknow, folks like Chris Walker. Saying things like a B M is just goodmarketing. What are your thoughts? Whenever you see a bunch of people kindof hating on a B M, you see Chris Walker going. This isn't novel. This isjust good marketing. You know who your buyers are and you go after them. And Iwould say that's because Chris Walker grew up in a B two B marketing spacebecause for other marketers who are coming in to B two B marketing fromoutside and I've done be to see higher ed nonprofit like this is a totallydifferent way of thinking, cause it wasn't even possible. It's unique to beto be. Which is why, like San Graham wrote the book A B M is B two b. Whileit's probably you don't always have to perform it that way. It is a B two bplay e. I think that's why Chris Walker says I don't I don't know how muchexperience he has an outside of B two b And I feel like it's kind of funnybecause I feel like demand generation is more of like, just generally gooddigital marketing strategy, like I don't understand where, like demand. Tome, demanding is, like broader and more just good marketing. But that's ChrisWalkers game, right? So it's also just really popular, didn't knock otherpeople's methodologies. So that always gets a good buzz on LinkedIn,especially when they're gaining steam, especially when they're gaining steamand they're getting really popular and everybody's talking about them. It'sit's easy toe to push back and you should. I think to a certain degree,people should shouldn't just be, you know, eating the food that the analystsare feeding you, and it just happens to be that in this season, Ah, lot ofpeople are really hot on a B M right now. But we're gonna spend the rest ofthis episode talking about five things that you need to look at in yourcompany to know if A B M is not for you on this first thing you need to look atis, you know, do your new customers contribute large amounts of revenue.You're looking at annual contract value on DSO for us In our journey with a B.M. We obviously used this podcast as a big part of our A B M strategy. We askour ideal clients to be a guest on the show. We build a genuine relationshipwith them, and then we nurture that relationship to see if we couldpotentially work with him and produce a podcast for them, since that's what ourbusinesses and, uh, And so when we first started doing this, we had todetermine that the average, uh, the annual contract value for a customer ofsweet fish was, you know, for us it was over $25,000 and when we looked andsaid Okay, if we have an annual contract value of $25,000 then we knowthat you know, we know how much it costs us to produce B two b growth. Andso we only need to dio we only need to...

...close two or three deals with gueststhat are on our show for this too. Give us a positive r o I. And so because wehad we nailed down and we got a very clear picture of what our annualcontract value waas. We were then able to extrapolate that and that could beapplied to a lot of different strategies, right? Not just podcasting.When you know what that A C V is, You look out and say Okay, What? What's itgoing to take for us to generate that revenue minus, you know, the cost ofthe execution of that strategy. So the second thing we're looking at is makingsure you have a clear understanding of who your target is, or it be anindicator to not do it. If you don't have a clear understanding, there mightbe a few situations where this you run into this. The most obvious one to meis like you're a startup like you're still trying to figure out what yourproduct market fit is. You're not even sure quite yet where your prospect is,who they are. You know, you think it's this person you think it's the head ofthis, but you're not quite sure yet you're still trying to sell. You'restill trying to prove that hypothesis and because you're not sure yet a B Misn't quite right for you yet, or at least a scale in a B M campaign. You'restill in the early sales days where you're just trying to get a hold ofthem and talk to them, which you might use a maybe, um, tactics. But you'reprobably not ready to launch a full on campaign and find 100 more just likethat guy, right? You're still trying to find your ideal customer, and Ipromised, and this is not This is we didn't even talk about this before, butI promise I'm not trying to over cell podcasting here, but us having ourpodcast as our A B M play actually helped us figure out who are buyer wasmuch quicker. So we've talked about this story in the past, so I won't beatit to death. But our 1st 150 episodes of GDP growth were with VPs of sales,because that's who we thought would buy our podcasting service. And we realizedafter 100 50 episodes, and none of them turned into customers for us that, hey,we should probably pivot who we sell to. And it was then when we said, insteadof selling into the sales function, we're going to start selling intomarketing. And so we started getting, uh, those VPs of sales counterparts andmarketing to be a guest on the show. And sure enough, those relationshipsactually started turning into revenue for the business. So depending on the AB M play that you're executing sometimes by getting started with a B mearly starting to have conversations with people that you having ahypothesis on of is, could this be our ideal buyer Onda having actualconversations with them, which podcasting happens toe lean toward onDSO It was super helpful for us to determine. Hey, this isn't the rightfit, and we were able to pivot our strategy and start chasing an entirelynew customer. And that's really when the business started to take off. Yeah,but imagine you had dumped a ton of advertising targeting those exactlysales wraps and sending them gifts, and all of a sudden they could. The costscan add up a lot, even though you think you're being really targeted. Your like.That could have been expensive really fast. Yep. And I think that's why a lotof companies that raise a lot of money in the early days before they evenreally know who their I. C. P. Is end up shooting themselves in the foot. Ialso want to point out here, Dan, that...

...for way haven't necessarily come outand said this yet, but you and I are not a B M experts. I mean, we we'vebeen executing podcasting as a B M play for half a decade. You're very new tothe B two B marketing world, so if you're listening to this, I don't wantyou to take it. Aziz, Though Dan and I are claiming to be a B M experts, we'relearning a lot about it, especially this month Is Dan is doing all of thesecase study interviews and interviewing different practitioners and talking todifferent thought leaders in the space. But by no means are we proclaiming tobe experts. So the things that we're sharing are things that we've observedfrom our own experience and from friends that we have sang rhumba. Drefrom Terminus is a really good friend of mine. And so I've learned somethings over the years. Dan has learned some things through doing theseinterviews for this Siri's. But by no means are we experts, so so don't don'ttake what we say and start throwing stones at us because we're learners andwanting to share what we're learning with you as we go along. So that beingsaid, um, Dan, what's this third thing that that we think folks should lookout for to determine whether a B M is right for them or not? You know, a B Mmight not be good for you if you're not even sure how to target that person. Um,if there's a specific type of individual you know you sell to, butthey're really hard to get a hold of. They don't have social media accountsor they're trying to be anonymous. For whatever reason, A B M is probably notthe greatest thing because you need to be able to identify who they are andget their contact information somehow. This is probably the rarest of the ofthe five reasons we have, though I think this would be a big one if ifit's hard to identify who that person is or it's so many different people, Um,you've identified 10 different customers and they're all verydifferent that it's hard toe, really engage them on a consistent basis. Gotit? So it's it comes down to the ease of the data, like how you can accessthe data of the people that you're trying to go after data and just getaccess to them by a social search like where they're searching for you orsocial. I mean, everybody's got an email address, though, right? Likeeverybody's got a got a physical address that you could mail somethingto, but I would imagine depending on who you're going after. Data to thosetypes of people could be tougher if you're especially if you're btg right.If you're going after folks that are in the Secret Service. Uh, that might betough, but again, I mean, I think this is a rare 12 I think in today's agewith the zoom in photos of the world. And, uh, there's a good Gillian,different data players in this space. I I think it's pretty easy to find, forthe most part, whoever you're looking for, which is the beautiful part aboutBTB. Today's episode is sponsored by Lincoln. Did you know over 62 milliondecision makers are on Lincoln? It's the reason why I and a ton of other Btwo B marketers spend hours marketing on Lincoln every week. In fact,recently, I just pulled the report that informed our team had sweet fish thatLincoln had produced three times Thea...

...amount of new customers in the last 90days than the next lead source. Three times guys. It was a lot. There is nota better platform to research your key accounts. Find the exact people youwant to connect with and actually engage them in a variety of meaningfulways. Do business where business is done. Get a $100 advertising credittoward your first Lincoln campaign. Visit Lincoln dot com slash BB growthLincoln dot com slash btb Growth terms and conditions apply Number four, Ithink, is gonna be the most likely cause is that your marketing and salesteam just aren't ready to work together. A B M requires ah lot of collaborationbetween these two teams, as it is a marketing and sales play. They have towork hand in hand and making sure these these key accounts, that the marketingis really targeted and that the sales follow up with them is really on parand you're collaborating together on that handoff. Otherwise, an A B M playisn't just gonna be very strong. Curious Dan on the Beatus Seaside Iguess the sales function in B two C companies are are typically prettydifferent. But have you noticed there being even in your experience, do younotice a lot of friction between marketing and sales? I know it getstalked about in the world of B two B all the time, almost to a point whereit's like I roll. It's so annoying when you hear somebody talk about sales andmarketing alignment, but they talk about it a lot because it it is reallylike those. For whatever reason, those two teams do not tend to get along.They're not aligned on results. What has been your experience personally,with sales marketing limit? Yeah, so this is specific tube Be to see thathas a high ticket item that actually has a sales team because a lot of B twoC situations you have no sales like sales is them going and clicking out,checking out on the e commerce site or walking into a retail store? And that'sa very different situation, even if you're sending them to a high ticketfurniture store sales and marketing like they just don't interact in a wayunless you're sending them. Thio generally a call center of some kind,where sales and marketing after work together in order to get the revenue.And that's where, even in the B two C world, there is a ton of friction, andthe classic problem you run into is marketings, never delivering enoughleads. And if you are, then they're never high enough quality. That's likethe argument we have back and forth, especially like in higher right. It'svery similar to be to be in some ways because you're generating leads andthen you're trying to convert those leads into applications in a higher redworld. And then, naturally, the sales reps get mad because they can't closethe leads or they don't have enough leads. And so you hear a lot of thesame arguments going on as you do and B two b. Yeah, the perception on thesales side that marketing is over there, you know, playing with crayons and andmaking cute little pamphlets and banners to me, I mean, in the companiesthat were working with, at least with B two b sas cos it seems like we're longpast those days, Um, and I actually do see a lot of synergy and a lot ofalignment between marketing and sales.

I think I think the marketing leadersthat I talked to and the B two B growth groups that we facilitate do seem toreally get that Their function as a marketer is to support sales. But Ithink a lot of less progressive companies still have a long way to goin terms of understanding that that that's why marketing exists is tosupport sales. Everybody's driving toward revenue. I think a lot of peopleare still struggling with it. I think that kind of people who volunteer to bein these in these conversations with you are probably the ones who arehungry and thirsty and already implementing a lot of the ideas. It'sthe one who the ones who are hungry and thirsty, that air struggling, andthere's a lot of them out there. Like when I came even into sweet fish. And Iknow all these digital marketings things. I thought everybody knew allthese things. Everybody could do Facebook ads as easily as they couldrun marketing automation campaigns and build their own websites and then findout. Oh, not everybody does that. I was just reading all these books on SiliconValley growth hacking. So I'm like, Oh, isn't this normal? Is and everybody doall these things like Oh, I guess not. How have you balanced or what have youdone in the context of sweet fish to try to align what you're doing on themarketing side with what Josh and Logan have done on the sales side? That's areally good question, Like, right now I feel like we're so overwhelmed with SoManey inbound leads that it hasn't been a big problem. We haven't run into thatmore leads right now. So I'm like, It's not even a bridge we've tried to crossright now is I'm trying to lay down like, critical infrastructure so thatwe can scale Arlie generation efforts and our demand gin and, uh, and oureven our own A B M plays right. There's still so much infrastructure to putdown that we haven't even got to that point. And honestly, our demandgeneration work with linked in and with this podcast has been so good that ourinbounds strong and is keeping our one sales guys so busy that I could hardlyeven meet with him to talk. Talk to him about one thing that I've noticed thatyou've done that has been called out by other people on the team is youprioritize what sales is asking. So, you know, there was an issue a coupleweeks ago where he's like, Hey, if we had some sort of a tool that would helpus help our prospects future customers. A singer, um, calls them name theirshow so we can, like, guide them through what a potential name of theirshow could be in the sales process. One, it would help with customer on boarding.It would move the launch process along much quicker if we nail that beforethey even signed the panda, Doc. But you instantly I mean, you You put thatat the top of your to do list, which is a never ending to do list, and youcrank something out. In a matter of, I think, two or three days that is nowable to be used by our sales team and is expediting deal. So I just think theway your mindset is very much that of as a marketer, it is my job to to servesales. And if this is going to map to revenue, you know, I've got all theseother things, this infrastructure that we're trying to build on the email sideand with s CEO and with all these...

...things on our website that we're tryingto overhaul, but hope sales need something, and obviously you're notYou're not gonna prioritize every single thing they ask. But it is clearto me that you see your role as being toe aid. Uh, sales and I think that'snot I don't think that's actually very common. As important as marketing asI've always kind of scene, I don't know. Sales is like the final person in arace that handles the baton, and I wanna make sure that that person isready to win and finish the race well, so they're the last person that has toecarry that thing, and I wanna make sure I've gotten a head start. Um, I do seemarketing as somebody that you are a department that serves sales,especially in a B two B situation. But any kind of heavy legion environmentmarketing really needs to make sure they're setting up sales. Toe win Dan.What? What's the fifth thing that companies should be looking at toassess whether or not this is right for them? The fifth one is if a lot ofpeople are already searching for the type of solution that you have, ifthey're already looking for you, then you probably just need to be wherepeople are. People are looking, whether on search or on social, and it's betterif they don't know who you are yet or they don't know they have an issue thatyour product is a solution for. So a B M is right for you. If people are notactively searching for your solution, Is that Is that where you're going?That's right. So with us, I know this rings true for me. Just in the earlydays of our companies selling a B two b podcasting service was very, very hard.I remember having very hard conversations with friends going themarket just doesn't want this. People don't care about this. They don't getit. They don't understand that This is the easiest way to have conversationswith your ideal buyers, and they're just not. They're not buying it. And Idon't know if if we can do this any longer. People were, for sure, notsearching P to be podcasting. They weren't searching anything related topodcasting as a Biz dev strategy, for sure, And so we had to do outreach andbecause we asked so many VPs of marketing to be on B two b growth andbuild a 1 to 1 relationship with them, we eventually started getting tractionas podcasting started becoming more popular. You had shows like cereal thatwere really blowing up and come more progressive B to B companies startedthinking, Man, how can we ride this train that we're seeing a lot ofprogress in in the world of B two c? So but that being said we had to go afterthem first. So if you're offering a new solution, maybe something that has notbeen offered before, and you know that people are not already searching for it.A. B M is a really, really smart play for you because if they don't know youexist, they're not searching for it. How else are they going to find youaside from you targeting them and going after them with a solution and andmaking them know that you exist? Gosh, that last one is so powerful because, Imean, I think we've all run into that...

...is marketers where you have a productthat no one's searching for your like crap, like there's no market for thisYet. If I tell them we do X, they're like what? That's when a. B M workswell because it's so personalized and education focused in on high touch,which means you can get you're you're essentially trying to get theirattention to educate them on what that thing is versus other markets. Let'ssay you wanted to launch another social media management tool and you have aunique idea in a way of spin on it. Well, there's an existing market forthat. And even if you were doing it for enterprise, it's high ticket item.Chances are people already searching for it. So just get better at U. S. C Oon your AdWords campaign and do a strong social media. That's wheredemand is probably work better for you because it's a little bit of acommodity, though you know, you're probably trying to differentiate it inwhatever way. In those cases, something might work better, though it's not theA B, um won't work. It's just that it's certainly a strong when you havesomething that's innovative. That is unknown, and there is no market for ityet. Awesome man, do you wanna? You wanna do just a kind of a quickbreakdown of these five ways to know A B M is not for you, and then we'll rollout one. If your annual contract value isn't high enough to if you're not surewho your target is yet. Three if you have a hard time even targeting thecustomer if you even know who they are. Four. If your teams aren't ready towork together specifically your marketing in your sales team, ifthere's a lot of conflict and tension between them in five, if you are in aspace that already has a strong market where lots of people are talking aboutit on social research, A B M might not be the right campaign, though as wediscussed it probably could work there, though it certainly works a lot betterif it's a new and innovative approach. I love it. Awesome, man. Well, I'msuper pumped for for the journey your on this month doing a deep dive on a B.M. I know we're going to get better at it as a practice at sweet fish is aresult of everything you're learning from the folks you're talking to thismonth. So super pumped. If you're listening to this and you haven'talready given us a rating on apple podcasts takes like two seconds.Seriously, you don't need to deliver of you. Just open up the podcast, find thepodcast scroll down a little bit and just tap the number of stars you thinkshow deserves way. Love you a ton. Thanks a lot. One of the things we've learned aboutpodcast audience growth is that word of mouth works. It works really, reallywell, actually. So if you love this show, it would be awesome if you texteda friend to tell them about it. And if you send me a text with a screenshot ofthe text you sent to your friend Meta I know. I'll send you a copy of my book.Content based networking. How to instantly connect with anyone you wantto know. My cell phone number is 4074903328 Happy texting.

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