B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1677 · 2 months ago

3 Pillars to an Excellent Marketing Strategy, with Mada Seghete

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Benji talks to Mada Seghete, Co-founder and VP of Marketing at Branch.

Learn the 3 core pillars of Mada's original marketing strategy in today's show, and how even as tactics have shifted these 3 pillars remain constant. What are the 3?

  1. EDUCATION
  2. RELATIONSHIPS
  3. EXTREME MEASUREMENT

Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth today. On be to be growth, I'm glad to be joined by a new friend, Mada. She is the CO founder and VP of marketing at branch model. Welcome to be to be growth. Thank you, Benjie. So happy to be here today. It's going to be fun and you have experienced growth up close like I would say few others really have. So there's so much that I'm excited to learn from from your story. So for listeners who might be unaware, you began at branch years back as a team of one and then have been there about eight years. Just paint a quick picture for us, Mata, what branch was eight years ago coming in, and then you can fast forward and give us the picture today. Sure, I mean I obviously am one of the founder's a branch, so I was the first market there. We were for founders. We were doing mobile linking from the very early days and we also grew into building mobile measurements. So we started as a mobile dinket platform and then developed our mobile measurement platform on top of that as well. That was eight years ago. Today we are, I would say, the best well, boilding your platform in the industry used by over a hundred thousand apps around the world and we are about five hundred people the marketing team somewhere like twenty three out of those, and I did that team and I'm also pretty involved in not culture initiatives, but today we will be talking marketing. So cool. I mean, you didn't tell out the numbers, but I will, because you guys just raise three hundred million in new funding and evaluation of what over four billion. Yes, for a billion. I know it's even seeing that out loud, I'm like wow, yeah, I actually started the company that did that. I'm sure it's a cool, incredible and your humble about it, but that is something worth celebrating. So we celebrate that with you today. One thing I found really interesting is eight years ago you really saw three core pillars of the original marketing strategy and you say that those really stayed core to what you guys were doing at branch even through all the explosive growth. Want to spend a little bit of time on each of those, but would you tell me the three things that you really seem to hyper focus on those three core pillars? Yeah, they are education, so really telling stories and helping people understand why there is a need for branch in the market, how our customers use as but really this idea of content and education and stories. The second one is building good relationships, so really understanding our customers and our prospects and building really do, really good relationships...

...to them. So when something I was wrong, they come to us, they help us grow. So that's our second pillar in our marketing strategy. And the third one is, you know, measurement and hyper measurement, and we've been, you know, we were a team of four engineers we started ranch and I have an engineering background. So from very early days we were very much like this measure everything. How can we find a way to measure everything? And and those three started from the very early days. But I would say, you know, those are our three pillars today. When I someone new joins the team and I tell them about hope the marketing, that's how we start. It's interesting to think because over those eight years, I would say, especially in like the content space, you know we've seen changes in medium and whatever, but it's very much still something that all of the BB spaces talking about. So I would love to hear what was your bet early in it. When it came to education, what was the primary way that you said about where? When about educating the market, and how did you primarily do that? Well, I think in the early days we were thinking we didn't actually quite know, but we want to people to know about us and we were like, well, the best way to get people to know about us let's write some blog posts and some stories and get them on the front page of Hacker News. There was our big thing in those early days. So obviously we know we did manage to do that a few times. But as we started writing those block posts and educating and starting to write how to guides, we started seeing something quite amazing. People were coming to our website because you're finding us on search and we didn't you know, I didn't know that much about the CEO and we didn't start with searching mind. But when I started seeing the trend of people coming and discovering us because of stuff that we wrote, we started really doubling down. So I actually had someone on the data team who helped me and we did a really intense analysis of potential keywords and started writing content with search and I see in mind. In addition to note to the more general educational content. So that was a very interesting thing that devolved. Are already on and to this day it's one of our biggest source of new leads and actually it impacts our pipeline quite tremendous thing when you say it still is today, that that's a intense analysis focus on Seo specifically. You're writing still specifically with that in mind, not everything, but we do write with that in mind and we still look at like and we can talk about measurement later, but we do measure everything that helps generate pipeline and content is very high and when you look at that content and help people discover that content, a big percentage of that comes from organic search. So if you were like starting a new company right, what medium do you think you would use as you look to accomplish the the education piece? Now, is blog still to you the most effective? Do you see other things that you feel like you guys are starting to put your efforts towards?...

Me Block was not the only thing we also did. You know, in the early days we came up with this like really big good piece of content called the mobile growth handbook, and everyone down on the the became viral. You know, I remember going to Asia and meeting people and they're like, you guys did the mobile growth hand book. It's this thing I used to get my new job. That's awesome, and and so and we did it every year for, you know, the past five six years. They started very early on. So it's not just blog. But if I'm to think about what I would tell someone starting now, I would say focus on really educational content. So instead I think what I see sometimes companies do, and even people are branch when they joined it's one of the things they think is like Oh, be to be content. US Do a lot of gated white papers and those just don't work that out as well. Like, instead of doing, you know, ten superficial gated white papers, the companies would do it well. And there's others, not just us. They find one thing and they write, you know, the guide to that and they do it so well that everyone knows them on it. And then the blog. Obviously the blog is more for how to guys and want people search. So I would say paaring one area, one or two areas where you go very deep but very educational, amazing content, with more shorter but how to base content based on intent? Maybe No. In Our case was how two guides, but for other companies might be something else. But understanding what people are looking for and where you can help them and help them and rite. You know, like I remember one of the best pieces of content was written by CEO when Apple Introduce iways eleven, everything change and linking, and he wrote a how to guide to how to adapt to this change without branch and then at the end said, Oh, you know, like these thirty steps, if you want to cut half of them, you use branch and you only have to do half. But if someone could have used that guide, they didn't need branch. They quit. took his go and set up universal things without branch and obviously bench made it easier and there was a thing at the end, but he really focused on one customer actually needed and why they were searching for instead of just trying to sell them our car, our product. I love that. I've seen a couple companies and I don't have a dog in this race, but I would just would point out that I think it's interesting. I don't know if you've seen this to motto where they're they're actually taking, I would guess, or repurposing some of their content, but into a legitimate book. So they all of their content, primarily is ungated, because we know that that's the way that everything is moving and it should be easy to access, but then they take or they group a bunch of that into a really good looking, well produced, actual book, and that is just maybe requires just an email or it's really simple, but it's something that I've been thinking a little bit about. Again, I don't know, do you have a take on that? Do you like that idea at all? Yeah, I think I think that's actually a pretty good idea. I am just a I think repurposing and thinking about content a lot and I was one that...

I've seen a couple, you know, companies do. That was like, it's interesting. I will say that our best piece of content right now, like our most that's the thing that does the best, is actually this newsletter that someone on my team does, and I think what makes that newsletter good obviously we have a really big you know, we have about two hundredzero people reading it, but the open rates, even with that number, are something close to forty percent, which I think it's incredibly impressive. That's awesome and what makes it good is not. I mean, obviously we do repurpose content, but it's very much his newsletter. Like I cannot go and say, Oh, we're going to have someone else to the news letter, because he actually spends a lot of time putting his opinions on content that we generate or others generate. I think he actually includes our competitors when competitors have a really good piece, he includes it there. And what's really interesting. It's a little bit different than while you were talking about with email, but I think you know email can be a really good think if you do it well. He's newsletter. People really feel smallity and he has an opinion. He's snarky and a little bit like irreverent. It's a very good toll. Like I could if you love brish tomorrow. I think we would have to do and we wanted to continue, we have to do completely different news letter because you can copy his style and own and people read it because they know he's going to actually have an opinion. And and I was interviewing someone for we're interviewing for a content person and one of the questions is what makes good thought leadership. So as I try to think an answer that question myself. So, when you think about content, whether it's a blog or this news ladder or even a piece of content, in my opinion, obviously needs to be research and need to have good information, needs to be surprising, but you need to have an opinion if it's really good thought leadership, no matter what the content is, to spark a conversation, you have to have an opinion, you have to actually like this are the data and this is what I think you should do. You can take it or leave it, but I actually am not giving you just a bunch of information. I'm giving the information with their recommendation and opinion. Yeah, your unique point of view that you bring to the content you're creating, no matter the medium, becomes the reason that that content has staying power, which is probably we were joking about it before we started recording that the goal of this podcast is not to create another boring piece of pop content. But if you think about it, made that's what we're guilty of. is going well, it needs to sound exactly yes, business and then you suck your life out of it. Yeah, and I think that's not what makes without content, and even as a business. By the way, I think having an opinion on things does make you stand out and obviously when you add a business have an opinion. It's like the founders and the leadership them. But when apple introduce some of these changes, we had an opinion, for the better of worse. People reacted to our opinion. Not everyone agree that our opinion, but they put us on the map...

...for sure. I think that's so key and it's a good, good takeaway. I want to go to the second pillar that we mentioned off the top, and I know there has been a lot of evolution through the years, but you guys were very early, I would say to the community conversation. Tell me a little bit and maybe explain to our audience what your kind of big bet was when it came to community. Honestly, you know, to be completely honest, I didn't know what I was doing and I was like, I didn't come from marketing background, so I was like, how do you build things and get people to know about it? So my cofounder, Mike, and I went and we met with someone at I think it was great lock, and he was an entrepreneurial residence and he said, you know, you're trying to grow and your business. What you need to do is pick like an area that you're closely aligned with and just own it everywhere and own it when it comes to content, own it when it comes to events, just do it all. So that's how we know. We picked mobile growth, because branch helps you with your growth on mobile through linking and measurement, and we're like, let's make it big and we on the way from that meeting, I was driving and a micael founder just went on Meat UPCOM and started a mobile growth community and he just set the meat up for a month from then and we're like, we're going to make it up, will figure it out, and by the time we had to the office, I went and edited it and we're like, okay, now we're going to a meet up and we obviously didn't know what community meant and how well this would work for us, but we did this meet up and we invited a few people to speak, and it's interesting, you know, I remember the people who spoke at our first meet up. I think it was someone from interest and maybe someone from Robin Hood, and both of those became two of our early customers and the relationships to build those two speakers actually really helped us. And then some of the people in the audience ended up asking questions about branch and the meet up was not about branch. It was about mobile growth. You know, we had a two minutes intro to branch, but everything else was these people giving talks on growth. And we realize that that's a big opportunity here, that the relationships that you build with people by building a community can actually help people learn about your product. So we started doing a lot of these meetups. We build a big, big community, I would say, for before Covid we were doing a hundred, two hundred fifty meet ups around the world and a lot of our international expansion as a business started with this. Like I decided I was going to do meet ups all around the world and I hired these people as evangelists to run these meetups, and then when we decided to open offices, they actually became my first employees in those offices, and then we build teams around them and and and when you think about our international expansion, is started with community first and these meetups and it was very interesting. But I think we also realize that this is not the...

...only way you build relationships with people. So we started doing a lot of other things like the IP events. You know, I have my own podcast called how I grew this what I interview some of the leaders in the space and we really understood that, you know, building relationships with both your customers and with people that you want to become your customers can really help you can we help our business. So it has become a pillar for us and I would say one of the biggest areas where we focus out with the marketing efforts. It's interesting on the community conversation because I've noticed, as it gets more into the LEX account of marketers, if you didn't start with like more pure intentions, because your pure your intentions model of like how do we build this and get people to care about it? And it justs it almost feels like somewhat obviously there was, there was a reason finding, but there was some stumbling into the fact that community really work. We stumbled into this and I think what's really interesting is, even though we realize that relationships are important and stuff, we made sure that our community was never to branch focused, because I think if you go to a point where you talk too much about what you're trying to do, people won't come. So if you do things right and you keep the user in mind and you do what's best for them, business will come. I think that's happened to our content, the content where we sell branch and it's to have really focused on and it's not the content and die is the best when it comes to bringing pipeline. Is actually the more selfless content that educates the market that ends up getting guys the most new lead. So it's just very interesting and not the most sometimes people focus so much on the short term instead of thinking about the long term and doing what's right for customers and market and community and knowing that actually businesses come from it later on. It is it's such a long play and I think that's why so many get it wrong. They say they care about community, but it's they're trying to force it and then it comes across and you can tell it's not natural. So I appreciate you even saying that. I wonder from your experience and building community, anything you tried that didn't work? They didn't you just you'd say, Hey, watch out for this or stay away from that. Well, we tried. We're like, we're so good at doing these meetups. Look at us like, Oh my God, you know we would have meat ups with five hundred people and we're like let's do it, let's do a branch community. It's the promobile growth Communitian do the same thing, but like branch focus. You have enough customers, let's do it. That didn't work. Maybe work too smaller the time. I think you know, eventually would probably try again, but we were just too small and to people want to come and learn about more general things and when we did things that were to branch specific, was hard to get people and I think in general I just decided that I would just going to do that anymore. Like I'm...

...doing a big VIP event in Hawaii and it could have been people who are like when I tell people about that, if they're like Oh, you're doing a customer event with all your customers, and I'm like now, now I'm doing theaters and mobile event. They will learn about branch but it's going to be small and I'm just going to bring people together and build those relationships. And it's interesting for us being too focused on our product when it comes to building community and events. It hasn't worked at well. I'm sure when we're giant it's going to be different, but so far. HMM. Okay, so I want to focus in there just for one more second before we go to the last one, because the last one is this idea of extreme measurement. And I know that as an engineer and your your mind, you are thinking of measuring everything. So then in community it almost sounds like you have to shift out of that mindset somewhat, knowing it's a long play, but how know, I guess. Yeah, I think about that. I disagree with that. Actually. I actually think what's really interesting is because we have such extreme measurement and because we look at things and we measure things in the long term versus the short term. I was able to prove the community and the mobile gross community has a huge impact on branch. HMM. And I remember my cofounder and Urico try to say try to get me to shut down the community before we were able to measure it, because he said, you're doing all these events, but they I can I don't think they do anything. They're not focus on branch. You're not talking about branch. This is not working. I think you should just focus you on think some other things. Do you even know how to do? BE TO BE MARKETING? I remember even because that's not what to be marketing is and I really doubted myself because I had a hunch that the community worked, but I couldn't prove it. And then when we built a much better measurement system, it actually show that, like the people who come to our events in the next year, like the majority turn, like not the majority, but like half of them, turn into customers or pipeline or prospect and it's just really interesting when you can measure long term and not like, of course they don't do it right away. When you think about it long term, they actually it does have a huge impact on the business, but it doesn't happen overnight and you won't get usually, you know, someone won't go after and like by branch next day. So you're having to sell your CEO and those above you telling you to stop. On what a longer timeline? Give me a few more months or how how do you start thinking about it? No, and on measurement, I think we didn't have any way of measuring your community. HMM. So when you can measure it, because we weren't doing a good job, would like getting least but also to measuring the impact, and we are only measuring the impact in the very short term. So it's not like I just had to sell them. Hey, trust me, give me some time to measure this and we look at this and once we build a really good measurement system and I show the numbers, no one ever questions if, like relationships,...

...the community works anymore because we've we've analyzed it and showed that so many times and how what it does right now would say actually the same thing for content or media at this point right where it's like yes, it's another one of those touch points, and I think that's why your pillars work so well, is because they end up really I mean the side where you can't really you don't really know where or what resonates with people. But over time, your you are resonating and then one thing leads to the other. Okay, thank you for pushing back on that and going into detail are, because I think that's really helpful for us. So I love it. The third pillar extreme measurement. Ultimately, this is a pillar that I think many want, or they have some degree of their trying to look at the data, but they're struggling to execute at a high level. So within marketing, you built a scoring system to help kind of understand what's working, what's worth. It tell us the origin of this extreme measurement system. So it's less that it's in marketing. It was started in marketing, but it's just by the whole company now. And we really were trying to understand what actually generates pipeline and we notice that, you know, sometimes market think. We say we generate that the pipeline, but when you added the pipeline, the marketing thought you're generated with the pipeline. Is Dr Slot. They generated with the pipeline as and BDS generated. It was like twice the pipeline we actually had, because we double content in a lot of ways. So we're like, how can we build a system but there is no double counting and where everything gets a point and then you can measure things and compare things against each other? So we decided that we were going to build a system that was not there was no double counting and he wasn't marketing focus, or is Dr Focus. It was built for our whole go to market them and it wasn't that hard to build. So we basically took everything a touch point that we had between marketing activities. SDR touches a he's doing meanings, bed doing an intro and everything at points. So you know, some things and this points are similar to the minute, but they're not exactly the minutes, but they're, you know, kind of similar to both the effort that the customer puts and the time they spend. Give me an example. One average someone spent six minutes reading a block post or block post gets six minutes. Gotcha, okay, an ae sus in a minute. And a meeting for someone for sixty minutes and they get sixty minutes. But was something like a meetup with did something a little bit different. If someone's attending a meet up, even though the meet up is an hour, we actually feel they're not paying attention the whole time, so we're actually leaving thirty points. But if they speaking, got a meet up, they prepare for it, we really build a much stronger relationship with them. So we actually give them more than six to give them nineteen points in they're speaking. So it's not exactly the minutes, but the minutes kind of like help us think and give us direction. And then and you know, if they open an SCR for an email from an SDR are they...

...get more than like the one minute it takes to open the email, because they actually open an email and ready if they reply. They get even more if they read the newsletter. So everything gets points. So then when we want an opportunity gets generated and it reaches stage to we actually want to measure this by opportunities that are actually well established, we actually at that point, look at all the touches in the past year and then we apply time decay. We so, let's say if you attended a meet up a month ago, you get all the four points, but if you tend to the meet up eleven months ago, you get on your percentage of the points you would get. We add all the points together. We divide, you know, the pipeline, my money, by the points. Every points get some dollars, and then we added for everything. So every single thing that helped build the pipeline gets a little portion of the pipeline. And then when we think about marketing activities, we add everything in a system that we cate ourselve. All the money that the newsletter gets from a vy deal we added together and that's how much we call it weighted pipeline the newsletter generated. And then we have that for every single thing that marketing dies because track everything. We know all the ads, every single email that was open, every newsletter. We even like I actually track my own touches. I consider myself an evangelist, so when someone replies to one of my emails, there's a campaign called mother touches, so I get my own dollars. So everything gets trap and then we compare and we're like wow, look, the blogs actually do way better than, like the gated papers that we did like as the more blogs, or maybe the way we see you flushed out, maybe the way we did get the papers in the work all. Let's try again. So in many cases we don't like stop doing something, but we know he's not working the way this right now, so we restinking and the things that the well, we just do a lot more of it. And it also allows us to really know exactly how much pipeline we think is going to come from marketing. Where is the arts? You can even compare how I see ars do against each other. Look, this person generated this much weight to pipeline. I mean their main goal is meetings, but this is something that we track and look out at the higher level as well. Okay, I want you to go into a little bit more detail when you got to to time decay and then divided dollars, because I think for someone hearing this for the first time it's like it's a lot taking because I understand all the point structure, but I would just say personally, that's where I would go. It makes sense that you would take that into account, but I want to hear you explain that one more time and I think our listeners would love that too. So explain time decay and then how you start to bring in the dollars. Yeah, so I imagine. Let's give an example. Let's say, let's give a very basic example. Let's say something, someone something. Someone did only three things. Let's say one of those things was they read the newsletter. That was five points, they spoke at the meet up. That was let's say seventy five points, and they also attended a meeting. That was twenty...

...points. So let's say it's a hundred points and they get an opportunity for a hundred dollars. So if you take the hundred for you, let's say we didn't apply to time the care at all and all of them happened the past month. You take the hundred dollars. You divided by a hundred points if you add all of them together. So each of them get some dollars. You know the meeting the AI did for twenty minutes. Guess Twenty dollars. The meetups get seventy five and the the newsletter gets five dollars. If there was a time decay, the points would be different. So let's say if the meeting was a year ago, maybe they would only get ten points instead of twenty. So when you divide, you wouldn't be divided by a hundred points, but it would be divided by ninety points. Totals everything. Everyone we get different amounts of dollars. So now when you go and it's a let's say that one opportunity got the news letter five dollars and they got another three dollars for not opportunity. So when we look at like how much the newsletter creates in pipeline, we add all those dollars together and I think this is different than the way other companies do it, which they only look at like influence and how much is marketing influenced. They're like, oh myke thing in place, this is the this opportunity, this opportunity, but they don't really know about how much of those opportunities it did. It definitely okay. I would say this. I would take the last two and a half minutes of what you just explained. I'd listen to it like three times in a row if I was a listener. That we just do that, because here's the truth, it all makes sense and, like you, even having you walkter an example, I think it's beneficial. Let me ask you, putting myself in the mind of someone listening to this right now, here's where I automatically go. Mada, first would be, how are you actually tracking this? Like where? What did you build out in order to make sure you were tracking all this? We use the man base for all the tracking and for the point to and to assign the points. How long did it take you to figure out and assign all the points, like, Oh man, we have this touch point, this touch point, because you're going not just marketing touch it took us some time because, yeah, because when you split the Pie depending on how many points you assign, it does lead to some departments getting like if we decide that an intro from PD is a hundred points, they get a lot more money than if it's fifty points right. Yeah, so we actually had to sit down in a room with the sales, business development ACR and marketing leadership. That was one of my questions. I don't the points together. We can. It wasn't like decided just by marketing and they push back on some things and we push back on them on somethings and it was very much like a haggling meeting. We haggle, the haggle and then we also the other thing that's really important is that this is not the perfect system. So much depends on the points and it's the points are not perfect, so we don't actually give goals to people based on the system. This is the system that helps us understand, compare similar things against each other and predict how much pipe time we're going to get from different departments.

Because even if you, let's say in general we gave marketing less points that they should have, when we do when we come up with what we think marketing should be next quarter, we look at last quarter and there was the same point system. So it just helps us with prediction and planning, even though it's not probably perfect, and I think it's hard for any company to do this in a perfect way. It took it didn't take that along and took maybe like a month of back and forth and all of that, and then I and then we build. We use the data from the band based on other places, and we build something in data studio that actually allows every person on the marketing and other teams to go and look and compare their own things and see how much you know, like I did three webinars this month, how much pipeline each of them generated, how to etc. So if you won't get to their own reporting on their campaigns, the unifies a lot of things, even the process of getting to scores. I could see the back and forth being really beneficial. I love that you clarified how you think about it on the back end, that it's that is very important, that it doesn't just drive all your decisionmaking. But it is a non nonce point, it's a reference point and it's very dangerous if we are to create goals for teams. All our teams have a go cut of goals so around this, but we also have other goals like leads and s qls and meeting more traditional ones, more traditional ones, because in this model, if I increase my number, you could take away from someone else's number and we don't want anyone to be at odds, so that no one has any variable comp a branch tied to this. I think it's very important to not do that with a model like this. Okay, and highlight for me one more time, because you what big part of this was. You were seeing duplicates, right. So how does this take away from double counting? Because, like, let's say, an str created an opportunity, but marketing tish opportunity. The SDRNN only get a part of that opportunity, money and marketing will get the other part because everything gets added together, all the touches get out together. There's no way the pie gets broken down through all the different apartments and all the different campaigns and people. So there's no way to double counting the system. You're getting a piece of the Pie that you contributed to. Yeah, we have monthly meetings where we go and we look through the pipe and how much each team did. Then we could drill down and we have someone now. It used to be on the marketing, but then he moved into rap ups and they own it now and they look at everything and come up with insights and we use it for ourselves when we look at the campaigns, but we also look at the whole system as a company. So primarily revops is the one looking at it and you guys just kind of can if you want to. Or what? Is there any cadence to reviewing it? The wrap ups looks at it or every month and helps plan and you know, like, let's say we see less pipeline in let's say Mia. Why is that? where? Why is it lower? Is it a certain department? It is a certain person. So they do the very high level looking at it and we look at it as a go to Mike leadership team once a...

...month, but then we also look at that specifically by department. So we use it a lot on the marketing side, but we use we use it mostly to loo cut how marketing campaigns compas compare against each other. We don't look at like everything else, and then once a month we look at everything together. WHO. Okay, that's a lot, but it's so good. So I really appreciate you going into detail on that. We had three pillars right. It was education, relationships and then extreme measurement. Measurements always matter to you. Clearly this system is something that's been developed with with extreme care and is really beneficial to you. Do you think anyone can do this right? Anyone could create a scoring system like this? Yes, anyone can do it, and it really starts with just the first thing would be getting a list of every potential touch point and starting to assign scores. Yeah, exactly. And then come back and listen to this podcast and using something to track your touches. You could be visible, could be demand based. We whatever you use to track your your touches. I think that's also important. You need something you can really build. That their cell. So you have to make sure all your attaches are we use like a comple or partner that you know. disclaimer. I invested in it was started by a branch employee, but that's how we track bd touches and how, you know, be these making intros. So you to make sure that everything is kind of like your touches are tracked and we use outreach track as the art touches. You need to make sure everything's tracked and all your touches are there and you bring them together into a system santastic sick. Well, Mada, thank you so much for taking time stopping by be tob growth. I know there's going to be people that are going to want to connect with you or stairs just continue to follow your work. What's the the best place for people to do that? Linkedin. I'm like, I use it a lot. I update things and yeah, find me. Mad I say, get that one linkedin and add me or follow me. Wonderful. I know we're trying to have conversations like this all the time on be to be growth. I love how we dove deep today on extreme measuremment. Think that's going to be really beneficial for our audience. If you aren't subscribed to the show yet, go ahead and do that on whatever your favorite podcast platform is, and we would really appreciate it. You can connect with me on Linkedin. Just Search Benjie Block. Talking about marketing, business in life all the time over there. Very active, just like Mada is Mada. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much, Benjie. Love that this well, if you enjoyed a day show, hit subscribe for more marketing goodness, and if you really enjoyed the day show, take a second to rate and review the podcast on the platform you're listening to it on right now. If you really really enjoyed this episode, share the love by texting you to a friend who would find it insightful. Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing our.

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