B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2104 · 1 month ago

2 Foundational Steps to Mapping Real Time Actionable Data

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we talk to Dave Dabbah, Chief Marketing Officer at CleverTap

Yeah, Hey everyone, welcome back to be to begrowth. I'm Olivia Hurley and today I am joined by Dave Dabbagh, chiefmarketing officer at clever tap Dave. How are you doing? I am doing reallywell today and I just want to uh you know compliment you on on getting thepronunciation of my last name correct? That is uh that is not something thathappens consistently, I can tell you that. Oh well well, So glad I asked youbut so so excited to have you on today. So glad we get to have a conversationand get inside your mind and kind of crack into some of the industryexperience you have in the world of B2B marketing. We were talking at one pointabout if you were to take kind of like a diagnostics test on B two B marketingas a whole, you were saying there's two areas of improvement that you wouldreally strike upon. One of them is marketers not getting the most out oftheir own products. So using their products, full capability you think isa way that they can improve and the other one is using actionable, realtime data. And I'm I'm curious can we just start with this products point,What do you mean by marketers not using their own products? Full capabilities.Yeah, it's a really uh interesting thing that uh that's different. Youknow, it's one of the separations between B two B and B to C. You know ifyour B two B marketer or Btc market or you know, you can only buy so muchclothing or e commerce e commerce products of you of your own. So in theB two B space though, um a lot of us, especially the companies that are onthe tech stack Side of events that are producing technology which enhances Btwo B and consumer experiences. I see...

...this often across the market where alot of companies aren't actually using their own technology um that they'vebuilt um to enhance their own their own experiences. So, you know, for forclever tap, for example, we have this uh and this isn't intended to be ashameless sales picture or anything like that, but we've got this smartplatform that does, you know, like 40 or 50 different things. And one of thethings I said, you know, when, when I joined the company, as the, as the CMOis like, okay, what were you using of our own tech stack today? And and I'vedone this um sort of successfully along the way. Um in my time in the SiliconValley where I've insisted that we we find ways to use our own products. UmAnd what happens is the marketers are forced to better understand the use ofthose products and are ultimately able to figure out how to market thosespecific products better to the markets that they're targeting and going after.I could probably ramble on for, you know, hours on on this topic. But inthe, in the clever tap, you know, piece of peace of the world, you know, emailcommunications against real time. Actionable data is the standard that,um, that I'm trying to hold the team to, and I think we've made tremendousamount of progress in utilizing our own technology. And then you start to seeit sort of come out and come out in our brand and how our brand is marketed andand talked about, not just by myself, but by our sales reps are sdrs areexecutives and and certainly our entire...

...marketing team the second part of yourquestion. And this is always a challenge. When the interviewer askedyou multiple part questions, it's it's a the person always has to really sitthere and and pay attention. So the second part of the question was wasaround actionable data. Um I touched on it a little bit as it relates to ourown marketing organization. But if you're a B two B marketer or your BDCmarketer, there is nothing more important than being able to collectdata in real time. Um and then set your organization up to utilize componentsof that data to your advantage. I'll give you guys just a couple a couple ofquick examples um And one of them is not too pretty. So I'll save that onefor the second but it's actually an amazon example of of something that Ithink they did really well when it when it came to the use of actionable data.But um in the O. T. T. Space or as we as we know it here in North Americamedia and entertainment in that space the um the world has has definitelychanged and evolved significantly over the past 10 years definitely over thepast five years. And um now that there's only one blockbuster video leftin Oregon which by the way I bought a hoodie from that that netflix umespecially about the blockbuster the last standing blockbuster. But whatwhat's really interesting from an O. T. T. And a media and entertainmentperspective and um is that when you log...

...into an app and um whether or not thatis on your phone or on your television or on your laptop or your ipad. Thereare uh a medium preferences that have been set up and structured to provideyou Olivia information about things you've watched in the past. And thenthey attempt to make recommendations to you about things they think you'regoing to enjoy the beauty of what, of what. Um Netflix. And several of thesecompanies have gotten too is they're they're also utilizing real time datanow so that as you go through the process of scanning things, they'retaking that information and they're improving the experience for you inliteral real time. So if you were uh, you know, you had your heart set onwatching a documentary for some bizarre reason. Um, you know, I'll watch myshare of documentaries, but if you were in that documentary mood, uh, thenetflix operating system and the engine underneath, it recognizes that in realtime and then presents you, presents you with um with options connectingthat back to, you know, e commerce experiences. Fintech experiences. We'veall done this, um, food tech. Um, you know, I'm definitely not orderingsalmon tonight and Door dash knows that. And so they worked really hard topresent you with the, with the right information and that really improvesthe user experience. I can tell you, I have netflix, I've got amazon prime,I've got hulu who I have HBO max, I have paramount plus. Uh, my kid calledme up and said cancel, you have to...

...cancel the peacock uh, subscriptionbecause they got rid of harry potter videos And um, and I said, No, no, I'mwatching, I'm watching some system stuff on that. I'm going to continue a499 month for it. It's over there. But you know, you, you sort of, you've gotall of these different things and you can tell who's figured it out and whohasn't. Um, and I'm not going to name names, but you can tell, you know,who's figured this out and who hasn't, same thing can be said in, uh, in foodtech, same thing can be said in the automotive industry if you're huntingfor a new sports car as I am, um, you know, maybe next time we talk, I'll beable to tell you what I ultimately pulled the trigger on and they're allused differently. Um, but you can tell when they're, when they're really usedwell. Um, I teased it out a little bit with amazon and, you know, amazon is,um, is interesting because like their visual nature of what they do doesn'treally change that much. Uh, you know, it's sort of like their color schemesalmost always the same there. Look and feel doesn't really change much. Theresort of the way they list products and, and display products, you know, changes,you know, sort of slowly in terms of like major overhauls to the, to thelook and feel of of their of their brand, but what they've gotten really,really good at is um looking at that last product I looked at and continuingto promote that product to that person until they've taken an action againstit. Um and so I said, this wasn't gonna be pretty, so I'm in the midst of a aremodel, I was running a little bit...

...late for the, for this particularpodcast because I had somebody on my roof doing something, I'm not even surewide and I had to say, I'm recording, I need you to come down for the next hour.But um so we were um we were like, okay, well we were we're gonna order um somenew um some new toilets for the house. And so my wife said, okay, you know,the brand I want is this particular brand and you know, go, go see what youcan find. So I jump onto, um, I jump onto amazon, not Home Depot. Uh, youknow, you would think Home Depot, but I just like, I'm so programmed that thereisn't anything that it's almost a challenge for me now as a consumer,let's see if I can actually find this on amazon. And I go into amazon and Irealize how confusing it is to purchase a toilet. You know, how many differentsizes there are, all of the, yeah, I don't think I've ever purchased oneyear before going to say props to your wife for having a brand. You know, likeI not only want a toilet, I want this one particular brand. Yeah, yeah. Andthen you have like the, I mean California. So then you have theCalifornia water flow restrictions that um you know the toilet needs to matchyou know some of those some of those laws and regulations and so there's allthis all this stuff. So I've got this brand, I'm looking for it and I'mconfused. I leave amazon. I then go to um Home Depot Lowe's bill dot com. UmAnd I start doing my research there. I don't even think about it, like acouple of days passes and I log back into log back into amazon. I stillhaven't purchased the toilet yet, I'm...

...still baffled by what what I could bebuying. And I go back into amazon and you know one of the five products thatit's presenting me with on the fly is that particular brand and thatparticular um And one of the like five choices of toilets that we would, wewere interested in. Among other um other recommendations of other thingsthat I had been looking at in the past. So I clicked back on that toilet, I goback in and I'm looking at that toilet and then I find, and then it presentsme with four or five additional new recommendations on the fly aboutsimilar toilets by that specific brand. And ultimately, um I ended up buying,purchasing, purchasing this particular toilet and brand from, from amazon,thus proving you can buy just about anything on, on amazon, including yourboston red sox hat that, that you're wearing. This one is one of a kind, itis completely bespoke really. No, not at all. Yeah, I was like uh that I knowI rambled a lot there, but it is, and it is important to note that ultimately,um my experience was improved, you know, my experience on, on netflix is isphenomenal because netflix shapes the experience to what I want amazon is uhyou know, needs to, you know, continually evolve the shaping of theexperience because it's a, it's an e commerce platform. Um, and and they doa really a really great job of it and...

...there's a big difference in in foodtech, you know, in the same way there is in the O. T. T. And media andentertainment space in terms of who really does it? Well, what's thediscrepancy between in terms of real time data and your first attempt atfinding that brand of toilet on amazon, you came up with nothing, but then youlog back on and it's like in your suggestions, is there a lag time, isthere a discrepancy or is that like kind of like, like, are you kidding menow, you show me for any of that involved in terms of data? I thinkthere is. Um uh So on on the back side, Dave's never looked for a toilet before.Um So that you know that's that's the first thing uh Dave is based inCalifornia. You know what are they know my geography, they know my pastpurchasing history. Um They're able to utilize a lot of those uh those areasas well as industry trends. In terms of what are popular toilets that I mean, Ican't believe we're having this conversation but you know what ourwe'll just call him products, what are popular products that people arepurchasing at that price point? So I think they used that they use myhistorical data against segmentation information um and then enhanced theexperience the next time I logged in. Um And then once they knew I wasinterested in that brand, then then it was game on um from the technologystandpoint. So in terms of like using data, amazon did that really well. Sothen it offered the product you are looking for the next time. Is that thedifference then between using data and using real time data? Like netflix doeswhere it's like continuously improving...

...while you're utilizing the technologyor service? Yeah. Yeah. There's um uh you know, amazon's Prime Video uh issimilar to netflix um by there's definitely a difference. Um you knowwhen you go experience in both and you can tell uh you know how that real timedata, how how netflix has really started to really perfect the use ofreal time actionable data and amazon has, you know, pulls it off in in a lotof scenarios as well. But there are instances where while they'recollecting new information, it it does need to go back against historical dataum and other segmentation information that they have in their database andthen present you with the with options. What happened the second time I cameinto amazon is they were now prepared based on past information to utilizenew real time actionable data to provide me additional additional offersagainst a specific brand. And and so it's really it's really fascinatingactually. Yeah, that's totally fascinating. So I have a two partquestion but I'm going to ask you one at a time based on your feedbackearlier. I'm curious to bring it back down to like this B2B marketing space.Why do you think marketers we're not seeing a lot of marketers Use real timedata in the way that you're talking about? That's part one. Yeah. I thinkum I think we we all want to you we all want to do this. Um, you know, I thinkwe're all in search of the of the of the holy Grail of of of marketing. Imean, that's why, you know, whenever...

...you jump onto any, you know, tech stackcompany or B two B software company or anything like that, there's a chat botwaiting to help you. Um, and you know, sometimes that chatbots is a realperson, a lot of times it isn't. So, you know, we all, we all want to getthere. We all want to take, you know, that information that we collect on onpeople and and move that into into the process in in in a quick and efficientfashion. You've attended plenty of events, I'm sure over the last 12months that were all virtual And you know, like how many of those eventsthat you attended did you receive a an actual thanks for attending? You know,like 45 seconds after the event ended with information About how topotentially move forward with with some additional information about a companyor a product or service that was presented at that event. You know,companies are good at getting that done within, you know, three hours. Some aregood at getting it done within 10, some take two weeks Some take 24 hours toget that out to you. But we're all in search of the same thing where we wantto present uh present that um that information back to you quickly. Thestruggle is around operations and systems and internal processes and umyou know, and I won't sit here too uh you know, claim to have all the answershere. Um We we know what we're shooting for. It's a question of like, you know,how do we build that machinery um to...

...really deliver at that level? Andthat's what I've uh I've tasked the team, the team with. Yeah. So Generally,but also heading more into the specifics to what are some of thosehurdles or obstacles that B2B marketers encounter when trying to implementusing real time data. So uh you Olivia have have uh have come to have come tomy beautiful website and um you've been there before you attended an event sixmonths ago. Um Are sdrs reached out to you and try to try to see if you werean SQL or an M. Q. L. And it turned out Olivia, you were an MQ all. So you wentinto a different portion of our database. Now you've come back to toour brand and you've um you've downloaded a new piece of educationalcontent that my team has produced. How do we map that information togetherinto a, into a real time hopefully actionable data scenario where I cansay, you know, Olivia's back um you know, she never made it into that SQLstage before, but she just, you know, she's back for the first time in sixmonths. She's just downloaded a piece of educational content. Is it worth itat our company for a SDR to call Olivia. So the the challenges of the dataunderneath all of that, those scenarios that that I just presented are the arethe challenges that we all deal with.

And it's, you know, connecting the dotsfrom multiple channels over periods of time and then having the strategy setin place about how do you handle this scenario or that scenario? And that'sthose are the, those are the hurdles. So in terms of, of understanding fromthe what using real time data looks like. I want to jump to the results. Sowhat can people expect to see in terms of metrics in terms of digitalexperience, in terms of customer engagement. Different things like thatwhen they, you know, start doing what you're suggesting. Yeah, when when people listen to me,they make money. Um, it's like the old Hutton commercial anyways, definitelygoing to generalize here here a lot um, for a minute because you know,everybody's businesses are different. Everybody's metrics are are differentif you, you know, in order for you to create retention in a brand, you know,you have to have engagement first. Um uh you know, my my favorite new sort oflike internal tagline that we're that we play around with and I'll ship youout a shirt when we haven't made uh, you know, engaged to retain and itreally you know sits in line, you know not just with you know who clever tapis but it also sort of sits in line with the uh the overall a sort ofindustry as a whole in terms of what we're all trying to accomplish asmarketers. Um We're all trying to figure out how to increase engagementso we can retain customers and we can...

...generate ultimately more revenue when Iget into uh when we start looking at the media space for for example a mediaand entertainment space, your experiences inside an app. And it'samazing to me, you know like so much of this stuff I used to just do on myphone and my ipad but now that I've got these really super smart televisions uhyou know I have all of the you know entertainment apps just sitting on my T.V. S. And um you know across the house and I'm able to access you know startwatching the show downstairs and finish watching it upstairs and it all happensin in real time. The experience is fabulous. The ability um for thesebrands um Uh to figure out how to how to retain people through engagement isreally important. You can see you can see some brands that go from you know a10% retention rate, you know all the way up to a 30% retention rate. Um Youknow utilizing real time actual data, we've had customers at clever tap, youknow c 50% plus increases um through the use of real time. Actionable dataum in their business is really in the uh more so in the e commerce uh in ecommerce space. But that's that's really where you uh you see really bigbig leaps if you're a big brand though, and you know, you know, you know,people are coming to your, your entertainment app and um, you're like,peacock for example, it's, you know,...

...it's backed by, you know, NBC Universalor whoever they are today. I don't know, They keep changing Comcast, I don'tknow. So, well, they don't have the harrypotter movies anymore. So we know they brought him back, they brought him back,they brought him back, you'd be happy to hear, they brought him back like amonth later. And there was, there was a social media backlash when it when ithappened. And there are a lot of people who were, you know, talking abouttalking about canceling, but, but their, their, uh, their ability to retainpeople is based on, on how the content gets presented to the, to the end users.The first thing is they have to have enough quality content. That's thefirst thing. So that's product market fit right. Like they've got to have astrong product market fit, assuming they've solved the product market fitissue, then that content needs to be presented um, in in a way that is, um,that is appealing to the, to the end user. I downloaded the app when itfirst launched. Um, I was probably one of the first half a million people.That's something to brag about. You know, I was one of the, you know, Idownloaded, I knew when it was coming out. I was curious, I downloaded it. Ifound the experience out of the gate to be completely different than the otherthan their competitors in the market. Since the app has been out, they'vemade a significant amount of changes to the, to their uh, to the way the applooks and feels, and I'm sure there, um, engagement rates have gone upsignificantly because of that, and, you...

...know, I wish, I wish I had kept somescreenshots from the initial launch experience to the new launch experience,because there are two completely different things. It's as if they nowunderstand who who the consumers are, um, and how they want to use the app,and I think that was something they didn't have as strong a grasp on atlaunch as they thought they had, and that's why they made a lot of thechanges they made. I'm curious if you were to kind of some of what you'resaying into action steps, so if somebody wanted to go and and implementwhat might be just step one, um, okay, so step, step number one, if you are aconsumer company or a B two B company regardless figure out how to build adata warehouse where at the very least you can data warehouse all of youractionable, your historical data. Um And then you can bring in a new newdata into the into the system as a B two B market. Or you collect a lot ofinformation. You build this, you build all of this stuff, you need to thenfigure out how you're going to enhance that information and then figure outhow to use that information for segmentation and future futuremarketing. So data warehousing is is one of the first things you you need tobe able to do. The second step is once you've established established thatbegin with experiments, experiment on um what you what you think will happenif you were to attempt to implement real time recommendations based onbased on things that have happened in...

...your app in real time. So you reallywant to look at the experimental piece as a as a core piece to help you sortof establish what you can do if you roll everything out to everybody. UmI'm thinking about giving you a third one on this. Um but I think like thoseare the first two things you really need to need to do. Um And until youuntil you sort of get those things done, you're sort of shooting into the starswithout any way of really being able to tell how successful you've been againstagainst, you know, the data you have on existing customers, brilliant dave forpeople who need to now know what the third step is. How can they go, wherecan they go to learn more about you and learn more about clever tap. Yeah, soum uh you know, certainly feel free to check out our website at clever tap dotcom. I'm happy to, you know, chat with anybody. Um uh the easiest way to dothat, you could send me an email if you want. Dave dot daba dee A B B A H at atat uh sorry, clever tap dot com. My gmail account is easy actually, butthat's that's that's my clever to have account also. Um I do talk to a lot ofpeople on linkedin and um I spent a lot of um I will respond to DMC on linkedinand I I think I probably have, you know, a handful of new conversations that popup every week or two on linkedin, so certainly feel free to reach out to methere as well. Well Dave the absolute...

...rock star, thank you so much forjoining me today on B two B growth. Thanks Olivia, have a great rest ofyour day. Mhm. One of the things we've learned aboutpodcast audience growth is that word of mouth works. It works really, reallywell actually. So if you love this show, it would be awesome if you texted afriend to tell them about it. And if you send me a text with a screenshot ofthe text you sent to your friend meta, I know I'll send you a copy of my book,content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you wantto know. My cell phone number is 40749033 to 8. Happy texting.

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